the LANGUAGE of electronics, a minor rant

RadioRon · Dec 29, 2007

Many novices don't seem to get it. In electronics we speak a different language, and they need to learn it. That language is the SCHEMATIC DIAGRAM. We see so many many many posts where people begin with something like "I'll try to describe this circuit as accurately as possible..." when all that is required is an accurate schematic diagram. So elegant, so easily understood, so useful, so to-the-point. ( Sigh) I wish there were more we could do to encourage inclusion of a schematic in posts. Can the bulletin board software be modified to specifically ask for a schematic diagram for any new thread?

Brian Hoskins · Dec 29, 2007

RadioRon said:
Can the bulletin board software be modified to specifically ask for a schematic diagram for any new thread?

If that were possible it really would be very useful indeed. I'd use it a lot.

Brian

Brian Hoskins · Dec 29, 2007

Hang on, I misread your post. I thought you were suggesting that the post software be modified to include some tools that would allow us to draw schematics for our posts - perhaps by dragging components across.

Now that would be very useful!!!

Brian

Leftyretro · Dec 29, 2007

RadioRon said:
Many novices don't seem to get it. In electronics we speak a different language, and they need to learn it. That language is the SCHEMATIC DIAGRAM. We see so many many many posts where people begin with something like "I'll try to describe this circuit as accurately as possible..." when all that is required is an accurate schematic diagram. So elegant, so easily understood, so useful, so to-the-point. ( Sigh) I wish there were more we could do to encourage inclusion of a schematic in posts. Can the bulletin board software be modified to specifically ask for a schematic diagram for any new thread?

I totally agree. Also I often didn't post replies at time because I couldn't respond with a schematic and knew I couldn't express it accurately enough with just words. I downloaded a free schematic drawing package from expresspcb and can now draw simple schematics for posting.

**broken link removed**

So perhaps members can post their favorite schematic drawing program as an encouragement to newcomers to select one and start this most fundamental form of communication electronic circuit information.

Lefty

kchriste · Dec 29, 2007

There is a sticky post:

But then there are those who never read the FAQ or google before posting, so why are we surprised. I guess, as a group, we could take the stand of, "No schematee, no helpee." when confronted with, "The base bone is connected to the resistor bone, the resistor bone is connected to the V+ bone..... Why does it smoke?"

jumides · Dec 29, 2007

hi all,
I'll like this thread, It is very difficult for me to explain my idea because I'm not an English speaking person, so with the use "schematic" I can express my idea.

. I agree to use schematic, but schematic are not supported in "attach file".
I downloaded the "ExpressSCh" and create sample schematic, I just drag single
IC then save. Now I want to upload my Sample schematic with the file extension " .sch ", surely it it will not accept in file attachment, but I want to upload as "original file" so you can edit my schematic using "ExpressSch".

I got a crazy idea, I rename the "sample.SCh" to "Sample.txt" and upload,
it was accepted and download it again and Rename sample.txt to sample.sch
then open in "ExpressSCH" it works!!. As I suggest why not, to use common Schematic Creator. hey, if you want to try, download the "sample.txt" and rename to "sample.sch".

kchriste · Dec 29, 2007

In ExpressSch you can do this:
Click EDIT Copy Schematic Bitmap to the clipboard.
Then you can paste it into Paint or any other graphics program and save it as a PNG or GIF file.

audioguru · Dec 29, 2007

Hi RadioRon,
Remember when you were a noobie? I can't remember when I was one but a few noobies recently called a schematic "snakes and ladders". Noobies can't "read" a schematic so they don't use one.

Pommie · Dec 29, 2007

Maybe people could use **broken link removed** to draw schematics and insert them like this,

Code:

   o----o-----------o
   |    |           |                Phasenverschiebung = 0°
   |   .-.         .-.
   | R1| |       RC| |
   |   | |         | |     C2                    rBE
   |   '-'         '-'                       re= --- || RE
   |    |           |      ||                     ß
  ---   |           o------||----------o
   -    |           |      ||
   |    |         |/
   |    o-----o---|                    UA
   |    |     |   |>
   |    |     |     |      ||
   |    |     |     o------||-----o
   |    |     |     |      ||
   |   .-.    |    .-.
   | R2| |CB --- RE| |     C1
   |   | |   ---   | |            UE
   |   '-'    |    '-'
   |    |     |     |
   o----o-----o-----o-------------o----o
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)

or,

Code:

  .---o----o------o---o---------------o---o----o------------o12-15V
  |   |    |  22uF|+  |               |   |    |
 .-.  |   .-.    ===  |              .-.  |    |    .-------o
 | |<-'   | |    /-\  |              | |  |    |    |   .---o
 | |5k    | |5k6  |   |              | |  |    |\   |   |
 '-'      '-'     |   o--.           '-'  |  _ o o  o  /o
  |        |     ===  |  |            |   |   )|      /
 .-.       |     GND  | ---100n   LED V   -   )|     /
 | |       |          | ---           -   ^  _)|    o
 | |6k2    |          |  |            |   |    |    |
 '-'       |          | GND           '---o----o    '-------o
  |        |       2|\|7                       |
  o-----------------|-\ LM741      ___       |/
  |        |        |  >-------o--|___|--o---|
  |        o---o----|+/ 6      |   22k   |   |>  BC547
  |        |   |   3|/|4       |         |     |
 .-.       |   |     ===       o---.    .-.    |
 | |       |   o---. GND       |   |    | |5k6 |
 | |2k7   .-.  |   |   ___    _V_  |    | |    |
 '-'     KTY10 |+  '--|___|--|___|-'    '-'    |
  |       | | ===      47k   220k        |     |
  |       '-' /-\                        |     |
  |        |   |                         |     |
  |        |   |                         |     |
  '--------o---o-------------------------o-----o------------o GND
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)

Mike.

theinfamousbob · Dec 29, 2007

Pommie said:

Maybe people could use **broken link removed** to draw schematics and insert them like this,

Code:

   o----o-----------o
   |    |           |                Phasenverschiebung = 0°
   |   .-.         .-.
   | R1| |       RC| |
   |   | |         | |     C2                    rBE
   |   '-'         '-'                       re= --- || RE
   |    |           |      ||                     ß
  ---   |           o------||----------o
   -    |           |      ||
   |    |         |/
   |    o-----o---|                    UA
   |    |     |   |>
   |    |     |     |      ||
   |    |     |     o------||-----o
   |    |     |     |      ||
   |   .-.    |    .-.
   | R2| |CB --- RE| |     C1
   |   | |   ---   | |            UE
   |   '-'    |    '-'
   |    |     |     |
   o----o-----o-----o-------------o----o
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)

or,

Code:

  .---o----o------o---o---------------o---o----o------------o12-15V
  |   |    |  22uF|+  |               |   |    |
 .-.  |   .-.    ===  |              .-.  |    |    .-------o
 | |<-'   | |    /-\  |              | |  |    |    |   .---o
 | |5k    | |5k6  |   |              | |  |    |\   |   |
 '-'      '-'     |   o--.           '-'  |  _ o o  o  /o
  |        |     ===  |  |            |   |   )|      /
 .-.       |     GND  | ---100n   LED V   -   )|     /
 | |       |          | ---           -   ^  _)|    o
 | |6k2    |          |  |            |   |    |    |
 '-'       |          | GND           '---o----o    '-------o
  |        |       2|\|7                       |
  o-----------------|-\ LM741      ___       |/
  |        |        |  >-------o--|___|--o---|
  |        o---o----|+/ 6      |   22k   |   |>  BC547
  |        |   |   3|/|4       |         |     |
 .-.       |   |     ===       o---.    .-.    |
 | |       |   o---. GND       |   |    | |5k6 |
 | |2k7   .-.  |   |   ___    _V_  |    | |    |
 '-'     KTY10 |+  '--|___|--|___|-'    '-'    |
  |       | | ===      47k   220k        |     |
  |       '-' /-\                        |     |
  |        |   |                         |     |
  |        |   |                         |     |
  '--------o---o-------------------------o-----o------------o GND
(created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05 www.tech-chat.de)

Mike.

Argh...those can always be so hard to read. I'd say ExpressPCB or Eagle will do fine; if people are serious enough about electronics they'll install it.

Roff · Dec 29, 2007

LTspice from Linear Technology is a free spice simulator, but I also sometimes use it for just drawing schematics. It has many more symbols built in than those shown below, and you can add your own. It's not the greatest freehand drawing tool, but this should illustrate that it is possible to add your own symbols.

mvs sarma · Dec 30, 2007

There are some electronic symbols using those, and under paint one can make up a circuit schematic. I attached a zip file for common use. this is courtesy someone else and not my original. little experience is needed perhaps to derive at the schematic, and any enthusiast can make within 15 minutes, his /her first diagram. thereafter it would be child's play.

Hero999 · Dec 30, 2007

I use LTSpice of lots of schematics and sometimes I use OpenOffice Draw which also does a good job.

Torben · Dec 30, 2007

For me it mostly depends on what I'm working on at the time. If it's a theoretical thing I'm trying to work through, typically I'll be working in LTSpice, so I'll export a bitmap from that and post it. If I'm actually building on a project, I'll probably be using Eagle, so the schematic comes from that. For Eagle I usually just export to image from the file menu.

I've posted schematics from AACircuit here, before I learned how to use the attachments feature. That's just because I've been on Usenet since about 1992 and I was more used to the text-based nature of that system than web-based forums. Nigel has made it pretty clear what he thinks of using ASCII schematics when, in this context, an image would be much clearer.

But for, say, sci.electronics.basics, AACircuit is quite common.

Torben

audioguru · Dec 30, 2007

It is nearly 2008. ASCII schematics from the 80's are obsolete.

I press the PRT SCRN key then paste an image into Microsoft Paint program. Then I save it as a very clear small PNG file type, not as a mega-bytes size bitmap.

I don't like schematics that are a negative and I don't like the ones that are covered in dots (the measles).

People who post schematics as a very fuzzy JPG file type should be hanged or shot.

Nigel Goodwin · Dec 30, 2007

audioguru said:
People who post schematics as a very fuzzy JPG file type should be hanged or shot.

That's far too humane! - hanged, drawn and quartered - that's the only way!

audioguru · Dec 30, 2007

The "minor rant" has turned into torture.

jpanhalt · Dec 31, 2007

audioguru said:
People who post schematics as a very fuzzy JPG file type should be hanged or shot.

Intrigued by that comment and personally dissatisfied with the fuzziness of the schmatics I have posted, I tried an experiment to compare the PrintScreen method as described in the sticky note with simply exporting from Eagle as a PNG file. My system is Windows XP Pro and Eagle 4.14. Exported at 150 dpi and 300 dpi from Eagle. PrintScreen apparently has a couple of options. I just used Alt + PrintScreen and got the whole active window. Then pasted to Paint, outlined and cut to get just the schematic, and saved as PNG with the default settings. The clearest PNG image was with the Eagle export at 300 dpi (66 KB file). The Paint-produced file was 44 KB and seemed just a little less sharp, as when trying to read component values, than the Eagle export at 150 dpi (32KB), but the two were very close.

So, if one is using Eagle, I would recommmend just exporting the image as a PNG file intead of going the alternative way of copying, pasting to Paint, cropping, and saving as PNG.

Please don't have me shot or quartered

John

Hero999 · Dec 31, 2007

I just do a 'convert to .wmf' in LTSpice, import it into OpenOffice.org, then export it as a .PNG, it works every time and seems to give excellant results. If I wanted to I could convert them to .PDFs but I wouldn't want to wish waiting for, I don't know how long for Adobe to load, on anyone unless it's a very large circuit.

audioguru · Dec 31, 2007

We should also hang, draw and quarter the people who post bitmaps that are as large as a soccer stadium. Crop the darn thing!

Some people use a schematic drawing software that puts a battery way over there then the rest of the parts over here. With lots of air in between.

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