110V sockets in a 220V home

rjenkinsgb said:

What country are you in?

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I am in Pakistan

KeepItSimpleStupid said:

What's the VA rating of your USA appliances and what is the maximum current a typical UK outlet can deliver?
Would you have all of the USA devices operating at the same time?

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I just checked the appliances I have and the maximum wattage rating is 1000 Watts at 110 V, so thats less than 10 Amps. The sockets are rated at 10 Amps here.

As suggested by Nigel, I will revisit this. Thanks so much for the wonderful insight you all have provided guys!

With Americans coming to Europe, one type of appliance that is very frequency-sensitive is hair clippers. There are some threads about that on this forum.

https://www.electro-tech-online.com...s-240v-50hz-to-120v-60hz.130055/#post-1079191

Diver300 said:

With Americans coming to Europe, one type of appliance that is very frequency-sensitive is hair clippers. There are some threads about that on this forum.

https://www.electro-tech-online.com...s-240v-50hz-to-120v-60hz.130055/#post-1079191

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Most good barbers / stylists are converting over to LiPo battery and rotors motors - so much smoother to operate and less neuropathy. No frequency issues.

Sorry, I was using 240/120 which are easier to come by. You can use those sorts of transformers on 220 to get 110V out.
Transformers can be placed in series to add or subtract voltages. Transformers can be paralleled if they are identical and must be phased properly.

Thats dones by connecting in series first so they add and you can determine the proper phase.

Diver300 said:

With Americans coming to Europe, one type of appliance that is very frequency-sensitive is hair clippers. There are some threads about that on this forum.

https://www.electro-tech-online.com...s-240v-50hz-to-120v-60hz.130055/#post-1079191

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Thanks! That thread is an interesting read

KeepItSimpleStupid said:

Sorry, I was using 240/120 which are easier to come by. You can use those sorts of transformers on 220 to get 110V out.
Transformers can be placed in series to add or subtract voltages. Transformers can be paralleled if they are identical and must be phased properly.

Thats dones by connecting in series first so they add and you can determine the proper phase.

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Thank you !

Transformers do exist. e,g, Style 23: https://www.galco.com/techdoc/hde/hs1f2as_dat.pdf

Frequency of 50/60 Hz is important.
Your dealing with heating appliances, so 120 makes more sense.

We had to replace a bunch of 240V heaters because we moved to a 208V building,
Power is (V^2)/R 208 comes from Y, three phase and 240 from delta three phase.
277 single phase is a byproduct of Y 3-phase and that's reserved for lighting.
You do get 120 VAC single phase as well.

The building got like 10,000 V 3 phase which was reduced to 460 3 phase Y. 36 heat pumps ran off of that voltage., then 208 3 phase. You also got 120 single phase, 208 and 277 (lighting only) single phase.

The heat pumps were fed directly from the electrical room and you had 208/120 single phase panels and 208 - 3 phase for user equipment. e.g. https://www.oempanels.com/208v-single-phase-and-208v-3-phase

The machine shop was fed by a 460 3-phase with a transformer mounted below to get 208 3-phase, 208 single phase and 120 single phase.

We had a 40 kW back-up generator that took about 2 minutes to start. it had to provide 120, 208 and 277 single phase and 460 and 208 3-phase. We outgrew it. Convenience stuff was removed like backup lighting and turbo-pump back-up. If the pump looses power for >5 minutes, it takes 8 hours to bring it online again. Some emergency lighting was removed. The back up primarily did ventilation, toxic gas monitoring, the access control system and a shutdown system. The shutdown system needed a UPS for ride-through.

Other single phase 208 stuff was in a similar boat.

3-phase residential is rare, but possible in some parts of the US

Maybe these are the options. I don;t know.

Submit your plans to the AHJ and obtain permits.

Suggestion, if allowed.

It looks like you need 2 circuits, with possibly two duplex outlets per circuit.
There might be available >10 A circuits, but not for the walls..

You can use one transformer or two. e.g. one per 10A circuit. 10*220 W.
or you can use one larger transfomer, and connect to to a circuit > 10A.

Someone mounts the transformer and two suitably sized breakers using standard DIN rail construction to give you two protected circuits.

Then see f you can use standard US outlets, boxes and Romex cable to your distribution point. Wire is 12 or 14 AWG,. Romex is also known as NM-b. The cable is flat and is known as 12-2 w/ground (20A)or 14-2 w/ground (15A). There are two insuleted conductors (black-HOT and White (Neutral) and an uninsulated one for ground.

That would likely be ideal.

KeepItSimpleStupid said:

Maybe these are the options. I don;t know.

Submit your plans to the AHJ and obtain permits.

Suggestion, if allowed.

It looks like you need 2 circuits, with possibly two duplex outlets per circuit.
There might be available >10 A circuits, but not for the walls..

You can use one transformer or two. e.g. one per 10A circuit. 10*220 W.
or you can use one larger transfomer, and connect to to a circuit > 10A.

Someone mounts the transformer and two suitably sized breakers using standard DIN rail construction to give you two protected circuits.

Then see f you can use standard US outlets, boxes and Romex cable to your distribution point. Wire is 12 or 14 AWG,. Romex is also known as NM-b. The cable is flat and is known as 12-2 w/ground (20A)or 14-2 w/ground (15A). There are two insuleted conductors (black-HOT and White (Neutral) and an uninsulated one for ground.

That would likely be ideal.

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This is super nice and details. I will try for this, its worth a shot and allows me to take advantage of more BF stuff that I had put off from ordering .

if wiring is anything like this: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-electricity-wires-in-lahore-pakistan-37193699.html? which was taken in Pakistan, you shouldn't have a problem.

KeepItSimpleStupid said:

if wiring is anything like this: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-electricity-wires-in-lahore-pakistan-37193699.html? which was taken in Pakistan, you shouldn't have a problem.

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Thank goodness our (areas) wiring is much better than that, but not like what you guys have in the US or the UK or Europe in general. It's better in localities but this kind of occurrence is more common than is comfortable. It's a surprise that we don't have house fires typically, I guess what helps is that the houses are brick ones so fire occurrences are not that common (taking nothing away from the poor enforcement of electrical regulations).

I, on my end, will follow the guidance you have provided for setting it up and then get a professional on it to ensure safety. I am an EE but have moved to CS for a while, thank you again for all the help you and others have provided.

I had a search on sites in your region, but it appears 110V power tools are not common there.

Another possibility is industrial machinery. A lot of that uses 110V for the control system, and any place that upgrades or renovates industrial machines or machine tools may have (or be able to get) a large 110V transformer at a far better price than the the travel-adapter types.

True, I couldn't find a proper power converter in the market here either. The one that I am using currently was bought in the US at the time the appliances were bought.

I will look up the 110V transformer from industry leftovers, I have a few friends who work in different places so hopefully that helps with this. Thanks so much for taking the time with searching it up

The "hard part" is usually fishing wires through the walls. You really need to figure out what "they - AHJ" will allow. NM-b cable is solid wire.

This **broken link removed** is what we call a single gang old work plastic electrical box.

Plastic does not have to be grounded. Note there are clips that strain releifs the rectangular cable.
With an old work, box you just have to cut a rectangular hole.

We have a style of outlets called Decora that the GFCI **broken link removed** has to fall in. Not sure if GFCI is good for 50 Hz. GFCI is our version of RCD.

If you don't have breaker, you can use an outlet. The GFCI will trip if the outlet is wired backwards. It has a test and reset button. Some have LED's. The one above is for 15 or 20A devices.

You can wire them such that downstream outlets are protected.

AFCI is Arc Fault where it detects the signature of an arc and interrupts the circuit. AFCI and GFCI's can be combined. These are more for retrofit, because breakers can have AFCI and GFCI protection.

Another characteristic of some newer outlets is called "tamper resistant". This really means "kid resitant" You cannot stick something in one of the holes and get shocked. You have to push both sides.

Industry has high abuse, independent ground (orange), emergency (Red) and hospital grade receptacles.

Other wiring methods include, conduit (various types) and something called BX cable. It's a metaliic sheathed round cable. It saves some time when buildings are made with metal wall studs.

Conduit is used for high current stuff with individual wires, usually black. The ends are colored with electrical tape the proper color.

Independent ground is unusual, but what it means is that the outlet is not shared with another and the third prong ground and the box ground go all the way back to the point of reference.

The "best" way would be to make every outlet go to a single breaker. In a home, 3 bedrooms and the lights share the same wire.

What used to happen, is that power went to the ceiling light and a "switch loop" was brought to the light switch and you have a black and white which are both hot. The hot always or switched hot has to be taped black. I forget which.
Now, the NEC is requiring a neutral in the box with the switch to accommodate automation devices.

Hopefully, some sort of wiring that the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) can sign off on.

Where I live, we can do our own work. Replacing an outlet is no big deal. You should apply for a permit for new stuff and have it inspected.
Major changes require a permit. The house still has fuses.

The house was built in the 1960's where 2-prong polarized outlets were used. Fortunately, they put a ground to the box, so upgrading to a grounded outlet was relatively easy. That finally happened. The last room I painted, I put in upgraded all of the outlets and I added a Low-voltage dual gang plate. Nothing is connected, but it's there. Two Coax, ethernet and telephone is possible.

I ran two colors of CAT 6 cable. They will be terminated with RJ45's. An insert can convert these to analog telephone 6P6C. It could later be converted to IP telephones if I wanted.

I have OTA (Over the Air antenna) that needs work. I had 12 locations possible before the conversion to digital. That's a lot of tV's/
eg. Porch, living room, kitchen up, kitchen down, dad's shop, my shop, slingbox, rec-room, master bedroom, spare bedroom )not in use), small bedroom (Never had a TV).

The TV's that matter now is the down kitchen, master bedroom and living room.

if the small bedroom got a TV, it would be mounted on the wall. There is no wall mounted telephone outlet either.

Presently, There is a patch panel which isn't connected. There is, I think, 48 ports for the house for telco and ethernet and a 12 port panel, not wired, but will be all in parallel for telco. There will be a 24 port POE switch.

The TV ports don't work because the amp died.

I have a long way to go. Telco is not "home run" and difficult to troubleshoot.

telco is mostly dependent on a 4-station cordless phone system with an answering machine. One less used location has the "baby" portion of a "baby monitor" with parental units in my room and the laundry room. This broadcastes the ring tone for outside line and intercom. Intercom is used as a "nurse call" system and I can take a parental unit outside. It has a UPS on the base station and the phones are good for about 12 hrs with no talking.

I just upgraded "a little" with a wireless "nurse call" that uses an audible alert and bed shaker. The audio broken and needs to be sent back for repair. It helps.

I need to work on better integration of stuff that doesn't exist yet:
video doorbell for front door doesn't exist
An access control system doesn;t exist
back door bell (no doorbell exists)
Vertical blind control - doesn't exist.
Some sort of announciator for the master bedroom
mute the TV when the doorbell or phone rings,

And a 6000 Lumen LED lamp.

PS: I really like your idea of using 120 VAC Kitchen appliances. Theoretically, its easy IF you can get US wiring installed.

How about this as a "worst case" scenereo:

1. Wire home runs with an upgraded wire size for 15 or 20A, not 10.
2. Modify a blank pakistan plate for US outlets. e.g. **broken link removed**
3. Leave enough slack near the breaker box to convert back to Pakistan.
If the transformer(s) are mounted in an enclosure, then just a jumper and possible fuse change.

This is the idea for a flange mounted enclosure. https://enclosurehub.com/products/1...er-turn-latch-includes-mounting-panel-nema-1?

I think you can get some with windows to see the breakers.

Somehow, I think, that US outlets at 50Hz might increase resale value a little bit. The ability to convert back even more.

I see Pakistan uses 4 types of outlets, one is the UK 13a outlet with fuse in the plug.
Max.

Thanks so much guys!

KeepItSimpleStupid Thank you for the detailed guidance on running the wires, it really helps as wiring standards here are not up to par (as you saw in the picture). I plan to run a conduit to the kitchen and use a breaker since I might not be able to get GFCIs here. I am able to get one of those universal outlet socket plates so I should have no problem with inserting the plug (as Max notes, our outlet types are all over the place too). The transformer, once I get it will be in housing/elcosure so that takes care of that. I will run this with the electrical guy ofcourse to make sure it is good.

There should be a supplier for those building controls for industry. The DIN rail is a universal "erector set".

Here https://hackaday.com/2018/09/13/the-din-rail-and-how-it-got-that-way/ is a simple example with a few parts like breakers and terminals.

The trick is QTY 1.

These https://www.automation24.com/article?s=din terminals&sort=6 guys are good for me and deliver quickly in the US of course.
Weidmuller, phoenix contact and Altech are good suppliers.

A first timer would have problems. Why?

The TS32 is a T shaped rail and it's now preferred. There is an aluminum plate for the enclosures and the DIN rail is mounted to tappex holes. metal, aluminum, with and without holes are possible rails. The back board needs minimal holes usually.

Rule #1: power at the top with breakers at the top Why? it disconnects power to everything below.
Rule #2: Inputs get their own terminals. meaning, if L1, N and GND enter the box, they should go to a terminal near entry.
That's very important. Internally, you have cross connects.
Rule 3: There are some special power blocks that can be used that don;t mount to the rails.
Rule 4: There are ON/OFF disconnects that prevent opening the box without it being off or a latch like a screwdriver being ussed. This would not be necessary for you.
Rule 5: There are green/yellow integral ground blocks. Nothing special except they don;t need much support.
Rule 6: Use wire duct if necessary. I like 18AWG with reduced stranding for low current stuff. It's stranded, but doesn;t flop/
Rule 7: ferrules are useful. They are a collapsable tube that holds strands together.

A set of blocks on a rail consists of an end cap. This secures one side.
Terminals are open on one side usually. Another terminal of the same series can but next to one.
You can get covers and partitions. Covers have the same dimensions.
Partitions are a little higher so you can separate things a bit.
You use multiple partitions typically. You finish with a cover and another end cap.

Jumpers are wierd. You can usually cut them, but can;t use a two way jumper and a 3 way jumper to make a4-way jumper.

KeepItSimpleStupid said:

Another characteristic of some newer outlets is called "tamper resistant". This really means "kid resistant" You cannot stick something in one of the holes and get shocked. You have to push both sides.

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That's a good idea. I wonder if the UK will get sockets with that or something equivalent one day.

Nice! I forgot about this, we have a DIN rail setup in the main electrical box for our house, of course, the electrician did the wiring and setting it up. I think you are right, it would be good to have a similar setup for the 110 V system as well. Will probably need to have a separate enclosure for the transformer as it might not fit in there but both could be side by side. I have been asking around for transformers and have been told of some Chinese ones being available. Will get them tested for load though before I try to use them, cant trust their ratings. I still prefer something decommissioned from the industry as they would have a better build quality.