13 years of stupidity confirmed

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shortbus= said:
Not a complaint but just an observation. I know TV is just venting.
If USA political talk isn't acceptable here, why is political talk of any country allowed?
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My opinions or reports from South Africa get ZERO responsive from anyone here actually using ETO from South Africa. Cause its probably a handfull at most. And than they are normally frantically searching for technical info and don't have time for off topic. Very few Technical people left here in South Africa to help those that want to learn.

So, our SA Politics is safe here for now. If a member of the ruling party here ever decides to take me head on in a Political debate.........well, I look forward to that day.

In the meantime I'm just tvtech reporting the facts from South Africa.

 
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In my opinion, shortbus= is kindly trying to be diplomatic here.

To save the general forum and off-topic sections from descending into rants and raves/flame wars about particularly emotive subjects, this forum's Administration team took the decision that religion and politics should be out-of-bounds for discussion, which tends to be a common theme among most other non-religious or non-political forums out on the internet.

There will always be proponents and opponents with strong views on these subjects, and posts can end up being very polarizing, to the point of pitting one side of the membership against the other, resulting in a rapid decline of general forum decorum.

The fact that a SA political rant post does not produce the same kind of rabid response as would be elicited from a Trump-type rant post, is not a valid argument for that post to stay.

Also, the disdain you display toward the SA black population is equally as abhorrent as the xenophobic/ethnocentric views Audioguru projects towards anyone from outside of Canada.

We are members of an electronics forum, that was created with an aim towards increasing our own knowledge, sharing ideas, passing on information to those with less knowledge than ourselves. It does not matter what the color of our skin is, whether we eat rice/pasta/pizza/fish & chips/McDonalds or any other combination of things that makes us culturally-different from each other.

This place used to be thriving, you could spend more-than all night looking at the new content posted throughout the day, picking through the bits of interest and skipping the other 'noise' which wasn't of personal interest. Look at the place now - it's a flimsy shell of it's former self. It now reminds me of an old pub, which has a small table full of old gits that glare at anybody who comes near, they stroke each other's ego telling tales of derring-do, whilst shutting out any outside input.

Kinda sad.
 
shortbus= said:
If USA political talk isn't acceptable here, why is political talk of any country allowed?
Click to expand...
Mickster said:
this forum's Administration team took the decision that religion and politics should be out-of-bounds for discussion
Click to expand...

These statements are not completely correct, please look at the appropriate section of the rules:

****************************************************************************************
Forbidden
The following activities are strictly forbidden in the forum:
  • Posting SPAM. i.e. Commercial advertising of any kind.
  • Posting, or linking to sites with, material which is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character.
  • Posting, or linking to sites which offer, information about how to perform illegal activities.
  • Soliciting information about how to perform illegal activities, such as jamming a cell phone.
  • Posting, or linking to sites which offer, illegal copies of copyrighted material.
  • Soliciting illegal copies of copyrighted material, such as “cracked” software.
  • PHISHING. i.e. seeking personal information about other people
Polemics
Controversial topics such as:
  • politics,
  • religion,
  • politically biased science,
  • climate change,
  • over-unity/free energy,
  • conspiracy theories,
  • space alien abduction,
are not necessarily off limits.

However, unless you can provide scientific proof or evidence, we do not recommend pushing these topics on others.
****************************************************************************************
So, not out of bounds but discouraged.

What would you do with this thread if you were a moderator?
In my own view in a pink and fluffy world it could be described as a bit edgy. Here in the real world I guess it is OK. Just.

As for the RSA I have visited there twice, one week each time, I was there to do a job. There were certain aspects to the place about which I felt uneasy.
While I was there, I was talking to an expat Brit who told me that things were deteriorating, that was ten years or more ago.

Mickster said:
This place used to be thriving, ....
Look at the place now - it's a flimsy shell of it's former self.
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OK, what can be done about it?
Instead of just telling about problems, can you offer solutions?

JimB
 
I'd like to offer my HO .. .. .. .. ..

Discussion of politics or religion or indeed any other subject matter is not a problem, so long as it is based on fact and remains an unemotional expression of opinion. The problem occurs because the subject matter is cannot be based on fact but a belief or faith and each has his or her own set of beliefs to work with.
This produces the 'rabid' response that Mickster refers to which often becomes personal or offensive and it is that element that then needs the attention of the Moderator. The 'Rabid' response arises when there is an individual or group who have strong opinions on the matter, as in the 'Trump type rant post' which is something that we don't see over the rants of TVTech because the strong opinions are not present.
I well remember back in the 60s when Mrs Smiths' little chap, Ian, declared Unilateral Independence for Rhodesia and the then UK Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, took off at a rate of knots for talks aboard an RN frigate, HMS Fearless I think, which repeatedly broke down and came to nothing and whilst he was remarkable in his perseverance over many months, the general opinion back in the UK was that we should just let them get on with it, nobody cared very much. That situation has eventually led to the sometimes murderous regimes of the likes of Joshua Nkomo, Robert Mugabe and others which you do see reported in the news occasionally but not with the same detailed 'rabid response' that actions of Trump or Putin attract.

As for TVTech himself, I suspect if you turned up on his doorstep with a first class airline ticket for Miami Beach and a fast car to the airport, he'd find a reason he couldn't go .. .. . SA is his country and he is passionate about it.
I've been reading TV's rants for a good while now, most of them have a funny side; I can't say I've ever noticed any of the racial disdain that Mickster is alarmed by .. but I could have missed it.

As for this Forum and the lack of membership .. .. . I'm the worst person in the world to express any opinion on the matter. I've been a member for over 4 years and I rarely offer any post to an open forum because I got fed up of being attacked and abused by those who felt that their electronics expertise gave them a superior intellect with the right to 'enforce' their opinion as fact.

The main problem in all of this is respect, or rather the lack of it.

By the end of WW2, we had learnt a most horrendous lesson about what a lack of mutual respect for one another does to society, but now. some 70 years on, we are rapidly losing the memory of that lesson.

For example.. .. ..

I live a retired life in Birmingham, UK; Over the past week there has been 5 incidents of knife crime with two of the victims not surviving. Of those 5 incidents, 4 of the assailants have been 16 years or under.

When my health suddenly deteriorated, Wife & I moved back to Birmingham to live in a small flat over one of our business premises because it was much easier to cope and close to medical help. The family of one of our staff were around one Sunday morning and one of the children kept ringing our doorbell and running away. since I'd observed him doing this on the CCTV, I went and asked him to stop; his Mother apologised to me and assured me of no further problem; his Father scolded the Mother with ' .. .. .. .. .. you don't have to apologise to him .. .. he's only a tenant !'
The fact that I was not a tenant is irrelevant .. .. .. but the apparent status needed to warrant an apology is not.

As for the Moderators, I think they have a very difficult job to do which often involves a judgement call over some interpretation. On this forum I think they achieve this with some quite remarkable diplomacy and I would support their actions at all times.

Finally, if any of this offends anybody, please accept my apologies, and I'll shut up now !


S
 
I just see politics as a big pendulum that will swing one way then the other - everyone will say "yes, but it's different this time" and it never is. If you read "Reminiscences of a stock operator" which describes the stock market in 1915, it describes exactly what happened before the stock crash of 2001 (even though it was describing the years before the 1929 crash).

I do however see religion as a huge problem. The sooner it is gone from the planet the better. My favourite saying to religious people is "I thank God every day for making me an Atheist". It kinda messes up their thinking.

Mike.
 
JimB said:
I can agree with that.
Once the human race has grown up enough the abandon organised religion, many of the worlds problems will disappear very quickly. In my opinion.
Click to expand...

Perhaps only with a question of what is defined as 'organised religion', I couldn't agree with that in any way at all.

However, it's not a debate I would want to get into here or indeed anywhere else, so I'd like to withdraw from the discussion.

S
 
JimB said:
OK, what can be done about it?
Instead of just telling about problems, can you offer solutions?

JimB
Click to expand...
I can try.
Right there, is an example of low/dwindling participation from current members. Lurkers, and potential new members, have generally read the forums for some time before taking the decision to take the plunge and register, or continue lurking.

As of now, we have 540 members/guests viewing the forum.
AAC has 634.

ETO:

AAC:

Our numbers are not that different than those of AAC, but we have far less new posts per day.
Could it be that AAC is much more welcoming to new members and particularly newbs?
Could it be that Indian kids wanting help with their home/school work are not chastised, or people from Asian countries don't constantly get reminded that their circuits run on rice?
Could it be that engineers from Nigeria, asking serious questions in order to try and improve their infrastructure, don't get labelled as a crook or con-artist?
Could it be that.....any number of reasons.

None of us were born knowing any more than basic functions such as how to breathe, eat, drink, sleep, and fill nappies/diapers.
All of us have learned something since then, but still have much to learn in any field. Even if we consider ourselves to be an expert in it, because no-one knows everything.

Members viewing/joining this site may be from all walks of life and may only need simple help with a particular project, or more in-depth help trying to trouble-shoot something rigged up by someone else. Are all newbs fair game, simply because they came here for help, and is RTFM the go-to answer? Would you be happy being asked if you RTFM before you went to see the doctor?

TLDR: We could do a whole lot better at trying to actively encourage participation, instead of chasing it away, IMO.
That would be a good start.

Maybe we could have a survey of the existing membership, regarding what they think could grow the forum?
 
Mickster said:
Right there, is an example of low/dwindling participation from current members.
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No, it's not .. .. .. I said .. ..

Musicmanager said:
I rarely offer any post to an open forum
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.. .. .. but that doesn't mean I don't participate in ETO. I have regular & frequent conversations with several members and I do offer help & support to anybody, if I feel I have something to offer, although my novice status means that is not often the case.

Of the 3 members who used to give me grief, one has not been seen here in over 12 months and another is now with AAC. The third, more of a sheep than a shepherd, is still around but, without the other two, is not a problem anymore.

I can't comment on AAC, I've only been there a couple of times and didn't stay long enough to form any opinion. However, I can comment on ETO .. .. .. .. I took to an exploration of electronics when I retired from teaching; I'm a musician so I knew absolutely nothing about it and still know absolutely nothing about it, but, I have been given the benefit of unstinting help & support and endless patience & explanations from many members over the past 4 years or so, some much more than others, resulting in an endless thirst for more and a complete new direction for my hobbyist interest.

The willingness of members to patiently share their knowledge and expertise never ceases to amaze me.

I could agree that sometimes the response to a newbie question is a little less accommodating than it could be, but on the other hand, when you're answering the same question for the 47th time the human nature of frustration is very difficult to quell; and how many times is a newbie question answered by a cut & paste from a Google page because the OP hasn't bothered to look ?

I don't know the answer to the question of increasing ETO membership and participation either, but to use me as an example of it's failing is certainly not right.

S
 
Musicmanager said:
I don't know the answer to the question of increasing ETO membership and participation either, but to use me as an example of it's failing is certainly not right.

S
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Maybe I should have elaborated more after quoting your post?
The reason I quoted you, was because the moment I read that line, it could have been written by any number of members who used to post a lot, but rarely do any more. In fact, it could have been written by myself.
Unless I am somewhere where there isn't any internet access, I am on this forum every single day, multiple times a day.
Like you, I will help out where I can, but speaking only for myself right now, the tone of the replies from some members make me feel that it's not worth posting. Another member recently shared the same sentiments via PM and I haven't seen him post since.

Regards.
 
Mickster said:
Could it be that AAC is much more welcoming to new members and particularly newbs?
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I often consider myself as having assorted personality defects and being a generally antisocial old git, so what should I do, invite them to chez JimB for a beer and a bacon sandwich?

Mickster said:
Could it be that Indian kids wanting help with their home/school work are not chastised,
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Or as is often the case, want their homework done for them NOW IT IS URGENT.
Or apparently refuse to understand the sensible reply.
Or, after someone has replied at length based on the initially supplied information, only to be told that that is not what they wanted and magically produce some new info which conflict with that originally supplied.

Mickster said:
or people from Asian countries don't constantly get reminded that their circuits run on rice?
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Agreed.

Mickster said:
Could it be that engineers from Nigeria, asking serious questions in order to try and improve their infrastructure, don't get labelled as a crook or con-artist?
Click to expand...
True, that really went tits up!
But having said that, there was good information supplied.

True, but often the info is to be found in the manual.
Numerous times I have downloaded and read a datasheet/manual to help someone out.
One thing that does grip my bits is when a reasonably sensible question is asked which attracts numerous differing and often conflicting replies, all of which are simple one liners with no information as to how the fix is to be implemented.
Such threads are not the sole preserve of ETO, I see it when looking over the fence at AAC where I often see replays which are blatantly wrong.

Mickster said:
Would you be happy being asked if you RTFM before you went to see the doctor?
Click to expand...
Probably not.
But the doctor would probably be not too impressed if someone came in and declared that they had self diagnosed a brain tumour and wanted to know how to cure it.
This is equivalent to many of the implausible solutions sought here by someone who has no idea.

Mickster said:
Maybe we could have a survey of the existing membership, regarding what they think could grow the forum?
Click to expand...
A bit like the BREXIT referendum here in the UK? Look at the mess that has created!

TVTECH
Thank you for the loan of your thread, you may get it back one day after it has been ridden hard and put away wet.

JimB
 
Wow! Guess I stepped in it again! Like I said it wasn't my intention to make this a problem, just to understand the regulations of the forum. Did not in any way, shape or form mean to get this as a response.

As a regular user of both AAC and ETO some of what was said happens on both forums, like the new members asking a question and either not wanting to accept the information given or after 3 pages of response finding out the real question.

And I want to appologize to TV for taking his thread off topic.
 
JimB said:
I often consider myself as having assorted personality defects and being a generally antisocial old git, so what should I do, invite them to chez JimB for a beer and a bacon sandwich?
Click to expand...

Oh, I couldn't accept that … the beer and bacon sandwich I mean !


Yes TV, I too apologise for hijacking your thread off topic .. .. .. .


.. .. ... time to crawl back under my rock I think .. .. ..


S
 
TV will be along anytime soon, paraphrasing Mick Jagger....

I said hey hey,
you you,
get outa my thread!

(Rolling Stones, Get off of my cloud).

JimB
 
Its OK Guys

No problem. My fight is not with you. My fight is all about wrong or right.

I don't steal. Stealing is wrong. Work don't steal. I might be poor but I sleep peacefully at night (if the noise isn't too bad). Last night was bad. These clowns were coming past here still at 5AM this morning talking crap at the top of their voices. Talking about tenders and **** knows what. Pissed, breaking bottles.....the normal stuff for here.

The youth......its the young folks......dreaming of easy money....like the ANC has shown them. They need the contacts to get the contracts.

And money for nothing.

That reminds me of a song:

 
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