'66 Studebaker Electronic Ignition module info request...

[Jim@HiTek]

Restoring a '66 Studebaker and would like to know if anyone has a schematic of the inside of the EI module. It's potted and if I had a schematic I could devise a test to check it before reinstalling it in the car. It was disconnected for whatever reason years before my brother purchased the car. Either because the original owner didn't trust it (happened a lot when they first started coming out with EI modules) or it failed and was cut out of the circuit because it caused problems.

I have a nice schematic of how it should go into the car...but I want a backup plan in case it's bad. Haven't found a 'restored' module anywhere on the internet. But if I had a schematic I could rebuilt the circuit, mill out the potting and old circuit, install my circuit, and re-pot.

Here's a photo of what it looks like.



Thanks!

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

No idea, but there's one obvious TO3 power transistor that can be seen, and there aren't many wires coming out, so presumably it's just used as a switch between the points and the ignition coil? (as opposed to a proper Cdi system).

 

[Jim@HiTek]

Yeah, it only has 3 heavy wires. Red to ballast/ign sw; black to +Coil; and green (blue on the schematic) to distributor.

The transistor screws are rusted/corroded in place but I might be able to remove and replace the xsistor with a 2N3055. Or as least test it.

I haven't been able to find an old Transistorized Ignition schematic...was hoping someone on this forum might have an old copy. These were called Transistorized Ignition Module's back in the day. When they did away with the points altogether, I believe they started calling them Electronic Ignition Modules.

They were pretty simple but I don't remember if they had a fly back diode or not (the heat sink assy in the picture I posted looks like it has a large diode on the right side in photo above), or if it had any electrolytic caps...which would probably need to be replaced at this point.

I have all sorts of test equipment to test it, but it sure would help to have a schematic.

 

[debe]

Whats in the distributor, does it use points to triger the module? If it does then its a transistor assisted ign module.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

In any event, try going this way: https://www.jcwhitney.com/igniter-electronic-ignition-kit/p2005114.jcwx?filterid=d13173y1966g2j1

There are for Studibakers for that year. I used the Commander.

I retrofitted a 65 Ford vehicle in 1977 or so with an optical ignition system. Worked very well. Ten I moved it to a 73 Chevy with just the distributer module upgrade, The manufacturer was Allison at time. I may even have the unit somewere in the ether. https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig207.htm So, it looks like everything is still available.

I share with you the reliability issue, but I had no problems. I was always worried that something would fail. Converting back, would take about an hour. Nothing is damaged in the process. A wire and it'd rubber grommet would be removed. So, if you had the poits and that wire, your good to go for a change back.

 

[rfranzk]

Hello Everyone,
I have been in the auto repair business since the early 70's and I never heard of anything having electronic ignition until the early 70's. Is this Studebaker a Positive ground system vehicle?? The reason I ask is usually the negative side of the ignition coil is switched by points or whatever switching scheme is used and you stated the black wire of the module went to the positive side of coil. What connects to tne negative side of the coil. I too am curious as to what is inside the distributor. If it has points and condensor I would guess that is a capacitive discharge module. If it is in fact electronic ignition there should be a reluctor wheel of some sort as a trigger for the module. The points and condensor just switch the coil on and off and the condensor absorbs some of the inductive kick to reduce burning of points. The spark occurs when the points open and the magnetic field is collapsed.

I have installed many retrofit systems from a company named Pertonix with very few reliability issues and parts are available in the US at almost any NAPA or Carquest store.

Here is a link to their website and their catalog shows systems for Older Studebakers. ( And lots of other vintage vehicles)

https://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/default.aspx

 

[Jim@HiTek]

Well, rfanzk, guess your memory is slipping. We have the 65-66 Studebaker shop manual and they show the wiring to a TRANSISTOR IGNITION MODULE (TIM). This is old timey stuff that I remember when I was taking electronics in college. It's different from an ELECTRONIC IGNITION MODULE in that it uses standard points, no fancy magnets or special rotors. But at a much reduced current then the Kettering (sp?) ignition which had all the coil current running through them.

To answer your questions, it's a negative ground 12V system. The NEG of the coil goes to ground. The black wire DOES go to the POS of the coil.

As far as those modules shown in your link, those would not be appropriate for a 'restoration' like we're doing. They would work of course, but not what we need. Thanks though.

The module shown in my first post is an OEM module. I could redesign a circuit to accomplish the same job, but it's much better to find an old timey schematic for the one I have rather then reinventing the wheel. The original may be fine since I don't measure any shorts or anything. I might dig the power transistor out of there and measure it, but I don't want to break off a screw or something...they're kind of rusted/corroded in there. And they're old fashioned slotted screws instead of Phillips.

I did design my own TIM back in the late '60s but that was just an exercise, never really built it and can't remember the details.

Still hoping someone has a schematic for an old fashioned Transistor Ignition system. That used the points and condenser.

 

[rfranzk]

Hi Jim,

I have NEVER seen this type of ignition system but Studebaker tried some cutting edge stuff in its day. ( I was 9 years old in 65) I also have never seen a Pos ground system that switched the Pos side of the coil. I found this website that might be helpful for you. It shows four wires going to the control unit but might give you something to work with.

https://www.vellemanusa.com/downloads/0/illustrated/illustrated_assembly_manual_k2543.pdf

 

[Jim@HiTek]

Whats in the distributor, does it use points to triger the module? If it does then its a transistor assisted ign module.

Yeah, it uses points, and a condenser.

 

[Jim@HiTek]

Don't know what the confusion is here, it's a negative ground system. I never said it was a positive ground. The NEG of the IGN COIL goes to ground. The POS comes from the TIM. It's just a matter of choosing the right transistor or making it a flyback design. For an example, there is US patent 3,169,212 dated Feb. 9, 1965. It uses a grounded coil, has a flyback diode, and uses a NPN transistor that (through a capacitor) connects to the positive of the ign coil. In fact, I think it's the design of my module, or very close to it. Just found it on-line. Invented by Robert K. Walters. Invented in '61 but not patented until '65.

Thanks for the link, I could use that design. Would have to do some rewiring of the existing system, but it could work. If my OEM module is bad I might use it.

 

[rfranzk]

My bad, No confusion about grounding, I meant to say Neg ground system, however it is standard practice on most vehicles to switch the negative side of the coil and power through a ballast resistor. Here is something frome 60's vintage Ford that is a three wire system and switches the positive side of the coil. May be helpful. https://restorecarsclassifieds.com/wiki/show_pdf.pdf?n=14264

 

[Jim@HiTek]

Yea, that is very much like what we have evidence for. Thanks a lot, rfranzk!

 

[ronsimpson]

Hi neighbor.

You might try this forum.
https://forum.studebakerdriversclub...5-ELECTRONIC-IGNITION-Systems-for-Studebakers