And we are not your slaves...

JonSea said:

No, no, no. Sorry you misunderstood my reply! I totally agree with 3v0. I was talking about the kind of posters he's talking about, not him!

What I meant was, I've posted detailed replies, outlining what needs to be done, and the reply from the original poster of that topic is something like "I ignored everything you said, did some whacko other thing and IT STILL DOESN'T WORK!!!" That drives me crazy.

Sorry about not being clear. I'm in total agreement with 3v0.

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I'm very sorry JonSea, that was my mistake. I completely misread that. I thought you said you agreed at first, but when you posted that last comment I got very confused

My apologies.

Matt

3v0 said:

From time to time we get people who want their code fixed but are not willing to learn from their mistakes or the person helping...

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I was really drunk last saturday and I was thinking about writing a similar post on the forum. Then I decided that I am too drunk and I don't want to piss people off on this great forum Sometimes I get inspired to help people here. That is great.. I learn something new myself every time. But sometimes I get very frustrated. It is weird how so many of these lazy people come from same part of the world. I see it in our university also "in real life". People from same origin asking questions that are answered in handouts.. if they just would read them. They even miss deadlines and then complain that they did not know there was a deadline?!?

I'm not sure if I'm fluent in any language.. I know finnish, english and swedish.

hi,

As always you have the option not to answer any request for help, you are under no obligation to reply, its that simple.

E

ericgibbs said:

hi,

As always you have the option not to answer any request for help, you are under no obligation to reply, its that simple.

E

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Exactly! I exercise that right extensively. I read most of the threads started.. I don't answer if I have nothing to give.. most of the time

ericgibbs said:

hi,

As always you have the option not to answer any request for help, you are under no obligation to reply, its that simple.

E

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I am not talking about people who ask one or two questions. This is in reference to people who have been getting long term help and abuse our generosity. It is far from simple.

And we are not your slaves...

Maybe I should try to explain why people stop helping. Let me relate a few short examples of where helping people long term has worked well.

I recall one guy. He had graduated and found employment doing embedded system development. He was the only guy in the shop doing so and had nobody to turn to.

Over a period of months we worked on each item that was new to him and when the project was over he knew how it worked and was on the road to being a competent engineer. There is a good chance that the time I invested in him made a long term difference.

My very first high school student, non internet, earned his BS about a year ago. The local phone company was not hiring but found him impressive. They created a position, interviewed others, then hired the best qualified person for the job. My former student.

Members here may recall the help they received on this forum.

As a person who understands the need to pass along what we have been given there is a sense of accomplishment and even pride in each of the above cases.

But when we see that our help is doing little more then getting your work done be it a project or an assignment. That you are not learning or learning very little. It is a red flag. You are wasting our time and yours. Quite possibly your fathers money if you are in school

There is still another aspect to this. ETO is a community of friends unlike others where people only show off what they know or one up the next guy. This contributes to its success as a board. Sure there are people who drop in to have a question or two answered and that is OK and expected. But it seems lame for people to use ETO as a help source for months and years without spending any time to know us, or let us get to know you. Clearly nobody is required to join in but without a doubt, and due only to human nature, we will go the extra mile for the people who have befriended us. Our internet family.

3v0 said:

We do and they need to know that. Which is why I posted this thread.

And we are not your slaves...

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I appreciate why you started the Thread and I agree.

IMHO its the members who constantly ask the same question that need to be told personally.

Its the Title you chose for the Thread which bemuses me, it makes me feel we are in bondage and want to be free.

EDIT:
I have read your Edit, which you posted while I was replying.

as I said: its the members who constantly ask the same questions

Helping these people is not unlike giving an addict drugs. It is exactly what they want but it impedes their learning. They need to start using their brains instead of the internet and ETO.

There is a thread going on right now that has an unusually high rate of questions per day, dQ/dD, and with no signs of abating.

Norator said:

There is a thread going on right now that has an unusually high rate of questions per day, dQ/dD, and with no signs of abating.

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Yep, and it's not just this forum either. The same thread is on another forum as well, and the EXACT SAME QUESTIONS are being asked.

DerStrom8 said:

Yep, and it's not just this forum either. The same thread is on another forum as well, and the EXACT SAME QUESTIONS are being asked.

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IMHO:
Time to bail out.
The guy doesn't want to know the basics so that he can answer his own questions or even do a quick Wiki search.
This is not about learning stuff, it's about being spoon fed and about just getting today's problem off his desk.

I hope the unnamed OP takes this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependent_personality_disorder
as a spur to improve himself.

Often they ask then just Vanish, leaving many people completing the question, without an OP.

Guys & Gal's I don't think your being fair with this the long post is Just a Man that want's to see all sides which comes from where he is born. Why judge people. We don't have to help. Yes people should learn and show that. But I'm sure we all know some people can't be helped.

But I see this to this site has tons of help because of the number of posters be them good or bad it still makes this site great. Even I have ask myself why post just to give them a answer. But I figure some one needs to know and if I can help I do.

ETO is a great tool for me I have learned so much here reading post. So the main point I see is weeding out the lost. Do you really thinks it will make it better.

Sites that do that end up with less poster and If us good poster run out of things to laugh about where we going to go.

be80be said:

Guys & Gal's I don't think your being fair with this the long post is Just a Man that want's to see all sides which comes from where he is born. Why judge people. We don't have to help. Yes people should learn and show that. But I'm sure we all know some people can't be helped.

But I see this to this site has tons of help because of the number of posters be them good or bad it still makes this site great. Even I have ask myself why post just to give them a answer. But I figure some one needs to know and if I can help I do.

ETO is a great tool for me I have learned so much here reading post. So the main point I see is weeding out the lost. Do you really thinks it will make it better.

Sites that do that end up with less poster and If us good poster run out of things to laugh about where we going to go.

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I understand your position but I have to disagree. He is not just trying to "see all sides". He's trying to get people to do all his work for him. He's doing ABSOLUTELY NO WORK ON HIS OWN. He's trying to get people to walk him through it, to feed him answer after answer after answer. He is LAZY and has no interest in actually LEARNING how to solve the problems on his own. He also keeps asking the same questions over and over again, proving he's incapable, or at least unwilling to learn.

I don't think you read the entire thread Burt.

The problem here is that we have people playing with complex IO of various kinds and after months of help they still do not know the basic language syntax. They just cut and paste and ask for help.

What do you think will happen if they manage to land a job. They will come back asking for more help on where to put that ';'.

DerStrom8 said:

Yep, and it's not just this forum either. The same thread is on another forum as well, and the EXACT SAME QUESTIONS are being asked.

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hi M,

IMO after reading thru this OP's posts , noting the correct terminology and abbreviations he is using to ask the questions, its obvious the poster already knows the answers to the questions.

Eric

ericgibbs said:

hi M,

IMO after reading thru this OP's posts , noting the correct terminology and abbreviations he is using to ask the questions, its obvious the poster already knows the answers to the questions.

Eric

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Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?

ericgibbs said:

hi M,

IMO after reading thru this OP's posts , noting the correct terminology and abbreviations he is using to ask the questions, its obvious the poster already knows the answers to the questions.

Eric

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Then what is he really after?
Evidently he has not yet gotten it, or enough of it, or he would stop.

Norator said:

Then what is he really after?
Evidently he has not yet gotten it, or enough of it, or he would stop.

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That's what a troll does. It needlessly and endlessly posts useless questions for no reason whatsoever just to waste the time of those kind and patient enough to try to help.

This is why most trolls are banned. They're a waste of everybody's time and of the site's resources.

Matt

Well I don't think he's a troll I no he knows something. But I also no a lot of people from where he is from and I think he is just overly reassuring his self. Because my friends do that. But I could be wrong. I agree about posters that don't want to learn. I helped a guy out a long time back and ended up doing all the coding for him. But that was my fault. I'll not do that agin.

Yes 3v0 it's going to be a bad day for them not taking time to learn. But there just some things you can't fix and this is one I don't see fixing.

This is why most trolls are banned. They're a waste of everybody's time and of the site's resources.

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The use of the rep bar is to combat this behavior.... If someone is asking useless questions they do go red.... I keep reminding folk that this is an open forum....Once you start down the line of banning everyone.... Deleting posts.... Controlling who post what... You are being elitist.... I don't want this site to become like this.... So we get the odd D**K head.... I have said many many times.... You don't have to help.. If no-one helps they go away....


As said before... I totally agree with 3V0, but!!! As long its my choice to help or not... it's not hurting anyone.... If said D**k head doesn't learn..... Its their loss... As I have observed, most of the posters here are really good with helping out... Something I really admire.... Lets not loose this..

The stats for people visiting / joining this site is very positive....

I would like to see it continue...

If anyone reports a troll or someone who is blatantly being said D**k head... Eric, Nigel and myself are quite quick to act....


I'll shut up now.....