Yes you did say already. I don't consider I was debating with you ,you are a rare exception who does not need the information on this thread as it is for fans of Arduino as the title said .
My post is for the rest of us that enjoy knowing what is being made by experimenters in this field
I was trying to bow out without ruffling any feathers. My interest in the Arduino is more the casual in that I teach an intro to micro controller development at my local high school.
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In your previous post you said
tytower said:
3v0 is obviously very experienced and goes much further than any usual user would need . I for one have no need of a debugger using the procedure explained by Leftyretro (GDay)
In short you said you did not need a debugger. You say the in general (casual users) do not need debuggers.
When talking about development tools it makes more sense to talk about what we WANT then what we NEED.
One could argue that a casual user does not NEED tools, being casual he has no real need to write code! Perhaps that explains the attraction to systems like the UBW.
Can you live without a in circuit debugger, yes. But in general debugging is easier when you have a good one. Your feeling about them is similar to people who will not use compilers.
Lefty said the on chip overhead for a debugger is too high. Since the advent of JTAG (and the downfall of the ROM monitor) most of the debug functionality exists as additional hardware, little memory is required.
I suspect any boot loader including the resident software on the Arduino uses more memory. How much is too much, is dependant on the project and is subjective based on the person.
The need for better tools increases with the complexity of the code. It goes way up when time is a factor. In industry time to market is a huge factor and companies have spent millions of dollars on various forms of debugging tools including ICE and trace with symbolic language support. I no longer work in industry but my time is valuable to me. Good tools let me get more done.
As hobby types each of us can choose our tools. But it is wrong dismiss (disrespect) what you do not choose to use. This is true regardless of the thread topic.
3v0