Buying components from China

moty22 · Feb 8, 2015

ericgibbs said:
If your projects need quality products you should buy from suppliers such as RS Components or Farnell.
You obviously will pay higher prices, but their products are quality assured.
E

I buy micro-controllers and digital IC's for projects for myself only, I can tolerate low quality.
When I bought 6 parts to build my own computer I ordered the parts from 3 internet shops in UK, 3 out off 6 parts arrived faulty. The hard drive was dented and very noisy the replacement arrived after 4 weeks and it was very noisy too, after a few weeks I threw it away. The power supply was noisy because the temperature control to the fan was wired wrongly and worked full speed, I repaired that myself. 2 of the USB sockets on the motherboard didn't work, I have 4 other USB so I left it.
This is about normal internet shopping for me. I'm sure that if this was normal for all internet business then it wouldn't last a week.

Nigel Goodwin · Feb 8, 2015

moty22 said:
You seem to be successful. How do you buy your bits from China?

I buy either through Amazon, or from Bangood - there's too much dodgy stuff and dodgy sellers on Ebay.

Honduras · Feb 8, 2015

There are very few electronics parts that I buy from anywhere except EBay. I seek out parts from particular sellers/corporations from China. Tayda comes to mind. Many of those sellers/corporations have offices and warehouses in the US now.

They have all been as fast and courteous as possible, considering the long supply route for some items. I've never had any trouble getting replacements, for free, for defective parts, and, after buying thousands of parts, I have only had to do that three times.

The ones to watch out for on EBay are from the US. I recently ordered 5 of one item. They sent me 3 of a completely different item. I questioned them about it and they said the knew the items and quantity were wrong, but offered to send me a refund if I changed my negative feedback. I told them to keep the money, and put the three items in the trash.

That's one of several reasons why I prefer to buy from China.

No two people will have the same experience on EBay. A lot has to do with what you buy.

BTW, if you need more accurate resistance, try putting 5 to 10 of a larger size in parallel. It often comes out pretty close to what you want. Of course you need to use the formula for parallel resistances.

BobW · Feb 8, 2015

I buy lots of stuff from Chinese sellers on eBay, and have never had a problem.

Regardless of where the seller is located, the important thing is to check their feedback rating and total number of sales. A feedback rating of 100% is meaningless unless they show several hundred sales. I never deal with any seller having a feedback rating less than 99%.

It also helps to be good at reading between the lines. I know a few people that are so focused on getting a great deal, that they fail to read the product description carefully, and more importantly they fail to pay attention to what the seller omitted from the description.

alec_t · Feb 8, 2015

It's getting to the point where its difficult to buy anything that isn't made in China .

moty22 · Feb 8, 2015

Honduras said:
There are very few electronics parts that I buy from anywhere except EBay. I seek out parts from particular sellers/corporations from China. Tayda comes to mind. Many of those sellers/corporations have offices and warehouses in the US now.

They have all been as fast and courteous as possible, considering the long supply route for some items. I've never had any trouble getting replacements, for free, for defective parts, and, after buying thousands of parts, I have only had to do that three times.

The ones to watch out for on EBay are from the US. I recently ordered 5 of one item. They sent me 3 of a completely different item. I questioned them about it and they said the knew the items and quantity were wrong, but offered to send me a refund if I changed my negative feedback. I told them to keep the money, and put the three items in the trash.

That's one of several reasons why I prefer to buy from China.

No two people will have the same experience on EBay. A lot has to do with what you buy.

BTW, if you need more accurate resistance, try putting 5 to 10 of a larger size in parallel. It often comes out pretty close to what you want. Of course you need to use the formula for parallel resistances.

Hi Honduras.
You seem to have much experience dealing with the Chinese. Do you think that I falsely accusing them in plotting to send faulty goods to customers they value as less important?
Can you explain what possibly will lead to me receiving used IC's that didn't work? Without asking the dealers first I gave them a negative feedback. In minutes I received an email explaining that the IC's where "end of production" . Their email admits that sending the faulty parts was intentional, never mind about the end of production meaningless rubbish. They offer to send a replacement together with my next order. This type of problems happened to about 30% of my orders. Like you, I left the negative feedback.
Is it to do with what I buy?

moty22 · Feb 8, 2015

alec_t said:
It's getting to the point where its difficult to buy anything that isn't made in China .

Hi Alec.
Good point, I don't really mind that though. I like to learn what is the proper way to order bits from China and after 3 weeks when you open the parcel to find what you ordered and not some surprise instead.

moty22 · Feb 8, 2015

BobW said:
I buy lots of stuff from Chinese sellers on eBay, and have never had a problem.

Regardless of where the seller is located, the important thing is to check their feedback rating and total number of sales. A feedback rating of 100% is meaningless unless they show several hundred sales. I never deal with any seller having a feedback rating less than 99%.

It also helps to be good at reading between the lines. I know a few people that are so focused on getting a great deal, that they fail to read the product description carefully, and more importantly they fail to pay attention to what the seller omitted from the description.

Hi Bob.
I also give the advice that in ebay 100% = 10 and 99% = 0 . I make a point not to buy from China if the ratings is less than 99.5% . My theory is that large dealers have more returns and bigger rubbish bins full of damaged goods. The reason for the big bins of rejects is the low quality of the production in China. At the same time there are millions of people like us who want to make electronics gadgets for themselves. Many buy bits and fail to build what they want and many don't find out whether it was bad circuit or faulty component. This people don't leave negative feedback on ebay.
Do you think that when an order for a few parts arrived it is easy to assume that it came from a person that wants to build something for himself? Do you think that a dealer will be tempted to send with this order some faulty parts out of the big bins knowing of the small chance of getting negative feedback for it? My orders have all the marks of that person and this is why I get one in 3 component out of the bin.

tunedwolf · Feb 8, 2015

I also buy probably greater than 75% of my parts from Chinese suppliers, both professionally and personally. I have had the odd failure, but not a significantly higher percentage than components sourced elsewhere if I'm being honest. If I'm looking for something specific, I usually find one or two good suppliers in China, and get into a decent dialogue with them. Most Chinese suppliers are more than happy to source and supply parts that they don't normally stock. I therefore have a handful of good suppliers that will happily cover about 99.999% of my needs. Unless a whole batch of components were faulty, it's simply not worth the effort to return them, although my suppliers haven't asked me to, they just stick a handful of free replacements in the next order for me if I report problems. My experience in buying from China generally is positive, but in China, it's not about the components, it's about the people, get that relationship right, and you will find courteous service, an amazing willingness to deliver on time, within budget and with a smile

I do buy some components from the 'bay, but rarely for anything other than personal use, unless I simply cannot source them elsewhere. I do check feedback, not the scores per se, but what folks actually say about them, and I also look for suppliers with local distribution, as these suppliers are rarely any trouble. I always ask questions and get to know who I'm dealing with though, I find that instantly sorts the good and bad suppliers out

audioguru · Feb 8, 2015

Many western companies properly design an excellent product and have it made in China using Western quality control. But many Chinese companies make stuff with NO quality control.

tunedwolf · Feb 8, 2015

audioguru said:
Many western companies properly design an excellent product and have it made in China using Western quality control. But many Chinese companies make stuff with NO quality control.

Yup, I agree, some of it is complete rubbish, but some of it could easily put western engineering firms to shame, recognised QC standards or not.

I have seen, repaired and replaced plenty of products from around the world over the years, where QC is obviously lacking, and not just from far eastern firms either, but from western ones too, and not only limited to the components used within, but everything right down to fit and finish. I don't tar everyone with the same brush, each supplier I deal with stands on their own merits with me, be they from China or Timbuktu. Providing I am receiving products that meet or exceed my specification, at a price I can live with, and are supplied within my time frame requirements, then I'm happy to develop a relationship with them, no matter where they are in the world. The opposite is also true, if I receive sub standard products, I do not deal with that supplier again, nor do I pass on their details to anyone else for that matter. I always tell the supplier why. Good suppliers, that is, those with ethics but that are simply misguided rather than deliberately misleading their customers, take that feedback very seriously and will do all they can not to repeat that experience with other customers.

There will always be those around the world that prefer to earn money in a dishonest manner, they are best avoided, by whatever means you have at your disposal to prevent them entering your supply chain. What western folks often seem to forget, is that product pricing can only go so low without some corner or other having to be cut in order to meet that price. Now if that corner was particularly important to you personally, then this obviously affects how you will feel about the transaction, however, if that wasn't your particular corner being cut, you might be happy enough with it. It's all highly subjective

JonSea · Feb 8, 2015

I've purchased many components and modules from Chinese vendors and had many circuit boards made with great success. ICs have been first quality, various modules have been well designed and work well. I've had one module from DealExtreme arrive non-functional which they replaced without question. With circuit boards, I had one batch with large (8mm) non-plated holes somehow transferred from one board (that was supposed to have them) to another board that was not supposed to have them – this somewhat manual step for non-plated holes was erroneously copied from one board to the other. They were happy to replace the boards but didn't want to pay the DHL shipping cost. I had another order to place soon, so they shipped them together.

All-in-all, no complaints here.

moty22 · Feb 9, 2015

tunedwolf said:
I also buy probably greater than 75% of my parts from Chinese suppliers, both professionally and personally. I have had the odd failure, but not a significantly higher percentage than components sourced elsewhere if I'm being honest. If I'm looking for something specific, I usually find one or two good suppliers in China, and get into a decent dialogue with them. Most Chinese suppliers are more than happy to source and supply parts that they don't normally stock. I therefore have a handful of good suppliers that will happily cover about 99.999% of my needs. Unless a whole batch of components were faulty, it's simply not worth the effort to return them, although my suppliers haven't asked me to, they just stick a handful of free replacements in the next order for me if I report problems. My experience in buying from China generally is positive, but in China, it's not about the components, it's about the people, get that relationship right, and you will find courteous service, an amazing willingness to deliver on time, within budget and with a smile

I do buy some components from the 'bay, but rarely for anything other than personal use, unless I simply cannot source them elsewhere. I do check feedback, not the scores per se, but what folks actually say about them, and I also look for suppliers with local distribution, as these suppliers are rarely any trouble. I always ask questions and get to know who I'm dealing with though, I find that instantly sorts the good and bad suppliers out

Hi.
Good and useful advice to make friends with the dealer before you buy. I think I can learn from your experience.
I buy only a few component for personal use a few pounds worth, do you advise me to get friendly with the dealer first? do you think that if I don't get friendly first it gives the dealer the rights to send me rubbish?

tunedwolf · Feb 9, 2015

moty22 said:
Hi.
Good and useful advice to make friends with the dealer before you buy. I think I can learn from your experience.
I buy only a few component for personal use a few pounds worth, do you advise me to get friendly with the dealer first? do you think that if I don't get friendly first it gives the dealer the rights to send me rubbish?

No, I wasn't suggesting you actually become friendly with the supplier, although I have quite a few suppliers where I am friendly with the staff now, but only because of long standing relationships built over many years. You have to remember that language, custom and culture all play a massive part in any transaction with suppliers in a foreign country. While many foreign suppliers manage some English language, at least on some level at sales, it's often not their native tongue and they do often misunderstand your requirements and expectations. Good dialogue with them, being respectful of their culture, over a short period of time and before placing orders, clears up those misunderstandings, at least for the most part. Both parties can then arrive at a successful outcome and can build something good together going forward. Strong foundations and all that.

I don't think any reputable supplier has any interest whatsoever in knowingly sending out faulty or substandard products, in fact quite the opposite, they would be horrified and would immediately rectify the problem. It does their business model no good at all to gain a reputation for that sort of behaviour. I am speaking here from the point of view of being supplied by professional distributers. For the small guys on ebay and the like, either selling remnants of old production runs or in the case of some of the less scrupulous ones, out of spec components that were destined for the crusher, but never quite made it that far, or just fake parts etc, this brings me back to what I stated earlier. Do your homework on the supplier, make sure they are genuine and that others regard them that way, strike up a friendly conversation with them, make your requirements crystal clear and then make a determination based on what you learn from them. In my opinion, there is as many good suppliers on ebay and the other trade sites, as there are ones to avoid. If it looks or feels at all suspect, walk away and find a better supplier.

I still get caught out from time to time despite my caution. There are silver tongued devils out there that will still get past your defenses, and that's just a fact of life, human nature being what it is. Remember though the oldest trick in the book, is to use someones greed or need for a "bargain" against them in such a way that it appears time limited, where better for that practise than an online auction or an ad saying offer only open till xxxx. The best way I have found to mitigate that pitfall, especially where I have any doubt in my mind, is to not make a hasty purchase, instead compare suppliers and hold off making a decision for a day or two, any genuine supplier will honour your interest and extend any offer to you, either that, or you'll come to your senses and see the deal clearly for what it is

MrAl · Feb 9, 2015

Hello guys and gals who might be reading,

Please keep in mind that this is not an issue that should be considered a 'constant'. That is, conditions and economics around the world are getting worse at an alarming rate, so expect more problems in the future than you did in the past.

I got quite a few things from Amazon that originate in China, and they all worked pretty darn good. I also purchased from DX which was originally based in China, and the LEDs and batteries all worked pretty good.
More recently however, several of the things i had purchased either dont work or have some problem about them.
For an example, the buck regulator boards i mentioned in the other thread about them, where the chip was supposed to be an LM2596 but instead it is a fake marked LM2576, so it's really an older part which is not quite as good. Lucky the board do work just not as well as they would with the new part. But the main reason i purchased them in the first place was so that i would be able to see how well the LM2596 part worked over the several LM2576 boards i built myself over the years worked. Thus, i was unable to achieve the main goal i set out to reach.
For another example, one of the power strips (from China) i bought from New Egg did not work at all because the built in breaker was stuck 'off'. It was only after taking it apart and examining it was i able to get it working but that required taking apart the breaker itself too. You would not believe the poor quality of this unit either.
Another example was the hot air station i recently purchased, where the soldering iron burnt out after two short uses, and the soldering iron ratings are MUCH lower than advertised, almost 50 percent lower.

The reason we get hooked in is because of the price i think. We are looking for bargains and we find them
The boards were only USD $3 each, and the power strips where only USD $10 each.

But the main point i am making here is watch out for a decline in the quality in the future. Try to get a guarantee of some kind before you buy.

moty22 · Feb 9, 2015

MrAl said:
Hello guys and gals who might be reading,

Please keep in mind that this is not an issue that should be considered a 'constant'. That is, conditions and economics around the world are getting worse at an alarming rate, so expect more problems in the future than you did in the past.

I got quite a few things from Amazon that originate in China, and they all worked pretty darn good. I also purchased from DX which was originally based in China, and the LEDs and batteries all worked pretty good.
More recently however, several of the things i had purchased either dont work or have some problem about them.
For an example, the buck regulator boards i mentioned in the other thread about them, where the chip was supposed to be an LM2596 but instead it is a fake marked LM2576, so it's really an older part which is not quite as good. Lucky the board do work just not as well as they would with the new part. But the main reason i purchased them in the first place was so that i would be able to see how well the LM2596 part worked over the several LM2576 boards i built myself over the years worked. Thus, i was unable to achieve the main goal i set out to reach.
For another example, one of the power strips (from China) i bought from New Egg did not work at all because the built in breaker was stuck 'off'. It was only after taking it apart and examining it was i able to get it working but that required taking apart the breaker itself too. You would not believe the poor quality of this unit either.
Another example was the hot air station i recently purchased, where the soldering iron burnt out after two short uses, and the soldering iron ratings are MUCH lower than advertised, almost 50 percent lower.

The reason we get hooked in is because of the price i think. We are looking for bargains and we find them
The boards were only USD $3 each, and the power strips where only USD $10 each.

But the main point i am making here is watch out for a decline in the quality in the future. Try to get a guarantee of some kind before you buy.

This is very similar to what I get. To my opinion we are the crasher (see tunedwolf post) that they send their rubbish to. We need better watchdog.

moty22 · Feb 9, 2015

tunedwolf said:
No, I wasn't suggesting you actually become friendly with the supplier, although I have quite a few suppliers where I am friendly with the staff now, but only because of long standing relationships built over many years. You have to remember that language, custom and culture all play a massive part in any transaction with suppliers in a foreign country. While many foreign suppliers manage some English language, at least on some level at sales, it's often not their native tongue and they do often misunderstand your requirements and expectations. Good dialogue with them, being respectful of their culture, over a short period of time and before placing orders, clears up those misunderstandings, at least for the most part. Both parties can then arrive at a successful outcome and can build something good together going forward. Strong foundations and all that.

I don't think any reputable supplier has any interest whatsoever in knowingly sending out faulty or substandard products, in fact quite the opposite, they would be horrified and would immediately rectify the problem. It does their business model no good at all to gain a reputation for that sort of behaviour. I am speaking here from the point of view of being supplied by professional distributers. For the small guys on ebay and the like, either selling remnants of old production runs or in the case of some of the less scrupulous ones, out of spec components that were destined for the crusher, but never quite made it that far, or just fake parts etc, this brings me back to what I stated earlier. Do your homework on the supplier, make sure they are genuine and that others regard them that way, strike up a friendly conversation with them, make your requirements crystal clear and then make a determination based on what you learn from them. In my opinion, there is as many good suppliers on ebay and the other trade sites, as there are ones to avoid. If it looks or feels at all suspect, walk away and find a better supplier.

I still get caught out from time to time despite my caution. There are silver tongued devils out there that will still get past your defenses, and that's just a fact of life, human nature being what it is. Remember though the oldest trick in the book, is to use someones greed or need for a "bargain" against them in such a way that it appears time limited, where better for that practise than an online auction or an ad saying offer only open till xxxx. The best way I have found to mitigate that pitfall, especially where I have any doubt in my mind, is to not make a hasty purchase, instead compare suppliers and hold off making a decision for a day or two, any genuine supplier will honour your interest and extend any offer to you, either that, or you'll come to your senses and see the deal clearly for what it is

I agree with your points. If I was dealing with a dealer face to face then the results would have been better.
Internet shopping has different rules. The buyer hands his money to third party (ebay) and the money is handed to the seller when both sides are happy. ebay now is powerful and they break these basic rules. They take the dealer side because he pays the commission. They also know that the buyer is likely to order somewhere else and they get another commission. ebay probably has been receiving millions complaints about the Chinese dealers and aware to the problem but they are too busy counting their profit.
Buyers need better protection.

MrAl · Feb 9, 2015

moty22 said:
This is very similar to what I get. To my opinion we are the crasher (see tunedwolf post) that they send their rubbish to. We need better watchdog.

Yes i think that is a good idea.

There is one upside to all this i think, and that is that once everyone figures out they are getting crummy stuff they will stop buying, and so the local retail stores will spring up again. We are losing these stores i think due to the internet buying trend. Once they screw themselves, we'll get the old stores back. Right now they have almost free reign because, and as others here have noted, we almost HAVE to buy from them right now. But if they keep bombarding us fake stuff and really crummy stuff we will learn and change our habits.

Radio Shack filed for bankruptcy. Our store here in town is one of the ones that will be closing near the end of this month.

JonSea · Feb 9, 2015

No, you don't have to buy from China. Digikey, Mouser, Newark, Jameco and many smaller companies will be happy to sell you parts, or you can often go directly to the manufacturer for ICs and semiconductors. Places like Tayda also offer good quality parts at great prices.

Much as I'd like to see a local store with a good assortment of EVERYTHING, I don't see it happening. Businesses will buy from suppliers like those listed above. Even if makers would buy local, there aren't enough of us and the range of parts is too huge to keep a good assortment locally.

schmitt trigger · Feb 9, 2015

"Caveat Emptor"; ancient phrase meaning let the buyer beware.
Sellers ripping off their customers, is a practice going back to antiquity.

It is always worthwhile to perform due diligence and be alert.
Even then bad transactions occur. Dishonest people exist everywhere. But if one learns from the experience, not everything is lost.

My two cents are: never purchase anything expensive or in large quantities from a vendor you have never dealt before. Start with something one can afford to lose, then progressively go with larger orders. When rapport and trust are built up, then place the multi- thousand dollar order.

Buying components from China

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