Bye for now and a heart felt thank you for all your help

Have you read the TOS for AAC? It is at the bottom of every forum page:

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Yes I read them. In fact I was rather impressed as to the length they got to in detail about specific actions and subjects that are not allowed.

TCM,

There was a lot of discussions on some topics that are not allowed over at AAC. Some was just between moderators and some were held in open forum. Automotive comes up quite a bit as a "banned" topic at AAC. Automotive Lighting is one standard that can be defined by national and local jurisdictions, and I am one hundred percent certain that I don't have the time to research every jurisdiction's rules when giving an answer to an Automotive Lighting modification someone wants to do. I just don't respond to those inquiries. Some have professional licenses and as such, they would be ripe for seeking judicial relief from someone who took their advise. One hobbyist to another might not suffer the same consequences.

I've been using forums for a over a decade and a half. Maintaining and growing membership is nothing new. Look up internet culture at wiki and see what has been said about content. I view a forum membership in a few broad categories. We have those who haven't visited in over a year. The chances of them coming back are slim ... however, I've rejoined this site after a very long absence. The next group are those who haven't posted in 90 days. They can be considered as "lost interest". The casual poster would have less than the average posts per day. The active poster would have more than the average posts per day, and the hyper-active poster would have more than the average plus 2 times the deviation posts per day. In that definition, I am certainly the casual poster here at ETO. I might have doubled my postings since returning, if my post number is over 94.

Last month I wondered about "growth" in the forums and I really didn't have a clue. I figured the "homework help" section of any forum probably got the most posts, and would be an indicator of growth. I'll post the growth rate for the one month that I've been observing. I'll also post the total forum from the generic data found at the bottom of the home page ... I didn't get back to EDP a month ago to get their figures so they are missing from the overall.

Moderators are needed to ensure the members follow the owners vision of the website. So, in that vein, there are some rules, and they are typically loose to further the increase in membership, fellowship, and overall enjoyment of the site. Every website is competing for someone's most valuable asset ... TIME.

Anyway, here was the growth for four electronics related forums that I have visited.

As for Ian's suggestion for an unrestrained "conversation," I think it is a terrible idea (sorry, Ian).

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No problem John!! Civilised contradiction is good practise... This is what I'm talking about... "Mud slinging" as you so rightly say, will not help at all..

hi,
Posting as a regular member of some six and half years, not as a Moderator, its interesting to recall what was happening on ETO about 2 years ago.

A very mall number of members were deliberately going out their way to provoke and cause arguments with other Forums members to a point where the other member lost their temper and retaliated, resulting in getting themselves banned from ETO, we lost a number of active members that way.

Obviously this could be allowed to continue and the trouble makers were warned by Administration and Moderation.

This resulted in derogatory comments about Moderation being included in some of their posts, the offenders were given temporary bans in the hope they would realise that comments about Administration and Moderation would not be tolerated.
The warnings and bans were posted to the member by using a private Disputes thread, which gave the member the opportunity to state their grievance.
The Dispute thread was open to ALL the Moderators and Administration so that we could discuss and agree on the appropriate action that should be taken over the member.

Sadly not all have got the message and still persist in making pointless remarks regarding moderation, heaven knows what their agenda is.?
I suspect they would like ETO be turned into a free for all, as many other web sites are, so they can do and say whatever they want too.

The majority of experienced 'helpers' on ETO are professional people who realise that moderation is necessary in order to enable them to work in a friendly environment, where they can help other members

When we sign up for membership we agree to abide by ETO Rules.

Eric

JoeJester said:

Last month I wondered about "growth" in the forums and I really didn't have a clue. I figured the "homework help" section of any forum probably got the most posts, and would be an indicator of growth. I'll post the growth rate for the one month that I've been observing. I'll also post the total forum from the generic data found at the bottom of the home page ... I didn't get back to EDP a month ago to get their figures so they are missing from the overall.

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Thank you for putting that together. I love data. Here are some static data from this morning, including measures of forum size. I wish there were an easy way to assess overall growth for the past year.



One thing that stands out is the number of posts per member and threads per member (data not shown) at EP. Are they all unemployed?

With the exception of EP, it is also clear that threads on ETO get a lot of responses, and our average membership is no less active than are members on other forums. The greatest weakness of these data is that they are static. It would be great, if a similar whole-forum analysis could be done for each of the previous 3 years or so to show changes.

John

I still enjoy this forum. I still go back and read ALOT of the past and present topics. On some of the older posts I remembered reading "going astray" replies and still read them and learned quite a bit about them and what they did years ago .... But I have noticed a bit of a decline in this forum and replies from some of the "older posters" which I do miss Sometimes people do have other obligations that are more important that takes priority and or just get caught up in life or other problems. What I've always liked is that I got straight forward answers to straight forward questions. Some forums when you read a similar problem that I would be searching for (before I'd post it here) It was answered with sarcasm for no reason at all, and most of the time that poster would not be back.
Yep, I'm still here, and hope alot of the "older posters" will come back again, they helped me learn again and can help keep a hobbie and skills going for many others for years to come.

John you miss my point completely. it isnt about ratio or number of posters etc, there were somegreat members who no longer post here or anywhere else, you are assuming that means no interest from them, but some like myself untill recently have only ever posted here!

As for some of the continued comments on moderation, moderators work to a set criteria, all a moderator can do is follow guidelines as they see them. moderators are human all have a slightly different view from each other as all humans do. there is nothing wrong here with the moderation team, the problem is with the way some rules/guidelines are/have been interpreted.
i cant do quotes on this new software yet but if i could i would quote eric in regards to what he has said about some of those that were banned. Alot of people dont use the chat room, but for those of us that do, we can assure you that some off the people who were perma banned had it coming for a long time.

ghostman11 said:

i cant do quotes on this new software yet but

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6 symbols to the left of the "Latex Button" above, Post Reply,

John,

I believe the numbers that you see at the bottom of the page are never reset, so the "creation date" of the appropriate forum must be reconciled with the data.

Monthly growth and annual growth can be extracted from the real time information. I'll try to remember on Dec 4th to collect the data again. Using those bottom numbers don't tell the story of the disappearing members. Growth is not an indication of the distribution of postings by membership. In fact, a lot of forums still use the X posts makes one a senior member or whatever description they decide to call their members.

A year ago I looked at the demographics of the users at a forum of which I am a member. The graph below was my best guess on the composition. I'm not saying the numbers would look the same, but if the complete membership was listed here, I would suspect the findings would be similar. There are massive amounts of the membership who do not contribute to the forums, all forums. They typically are the lurkers and the 1 and done posters. We all recognize the 1 and done types are those who signup to get a specific question answered, and they do it at multiple forums to see which one satisfies their request first. We typically do know they are one and done until a reasonable time has passed. Some test drive the forums. They can be lurkers and less than casual posters, with the posters not posting in the last xxx days. I typically use 90 days as the defining metric for lurkers and lost interest.

Moderators, while necessary, also influence whether the "prospective" member remains in the fold. If one perceives heavy-handed moderation, especially not consistent with the rules of the forum, that prospect will be moving out. A lot of forum owners cull the membership from time to time. After all, if one hadn't visited the site in over a year, are they really interested in being a member? I typically cull that member from any forum membership statistic except the one in the graph.

Forum members, the life blood of the forum, also influence the prospective members. The moderation team walks a fine line with the membership, counseling the members who are disrespectful and disruptive to other members. Again, the rules need to be enforced consistently, even if the moderator disagrees with them. Until they are revised, the enforcement must be consistent as perceived by the regular and prospective members.

Anyway, here's the graph I did on a narrowly focused topic. I consider electronics a narrowly focused topic even with all it's sub-sets.

First I want to state that my reduced activity here is due to shifting interests and has little if anything to do with ETO itself.

I know very little about the latest round of gripes about moderation but I expect it is the same old drill as usual. Somebody complains and the same old warhorses grab their battle axes.

Looking at stats in attempt to judge 'goodness' is a waste of time. Quality and quantity are not in lock step and are at times incompatible. If you think AAC or EDA better suits you then what is holding you back! Vote with your feet. Be gone! Realistically we all know that forums are not a one size fits all. It is impossible to make everyone happy. As I see it ETO has staked out it nitch as a friendly forum where you can ask a question without having your arms ripped off. If you don't like that.... like I said above just move on.

Prior to joing ETO I was active on EDA for a while People had worked out a ICD2 (pic) programmer clone schematic. I asked a question about a capacitor and got my head bit off. Maybe it has changed but at the time it was not a nice place.

Hi Guys

How do I ever begin to explain my loyalty to ETO? ....maybe because in spite of me running into problems where I have gotten out of hand I have been dealt with fairly here. Like I said earlier, ETO is run like a Professional business. Not like many other Forums out there where Mods wear ban hammers on their heads just in case they need to excercise their extreme powers....

The difference between ETO and other similar forums out there is that there are a bunch of PRO's here. If I decide one night to post a lot of Technical rubbish, I am guaranteed to get it in the neck the next day. And rightly so.

It is the way of this Forum. I hope it stays that way forever

Whoever leaves, whoever stays..does not matter. As long as ETO stays accurate and honest...it will be OK

Quality beats quantity every time. If you have quality+quantity= game set and match.

Maybe ETO should be striving for game, set and match?

Regards,
tvtech

The comparison's I've done were not to illustrate anything other than a growth rate. One month does not make a year, or even a quarter. The membership graph was for a non-electronics site, as my one view of looking at membership in an effort to keep the members engaged in recruiting and retaining new members. It boils down to WIIFM, as we are asking people to expend a valuable asset, time. The WIIFM covers a myriad of reasons.

Whether anyone remains or departs it entirely up to them and their perception of the site. I choose to look at four websites because of a unique relationship, electronics homework help. I made no judgment on the rules, response quality, or a host of other metrics anyone can imagine. If one wanted to break into this niche, you would need to recognize your competition and their accomplishments and failures. Another independent metric I've see was the website's worth. I believe there are a few independents that provide the site's estimated worth. I'm not trying to break into the niche, I'm just trying to get a handle on narrow focused niches with respect to membership.

One thing I did notice at EDA was the [SOLVED] indicator. I can imagine that being labor intensive on the volunteer moderators, especially in the beginning.

Each forum out there serves a purpose.

The difference between ETO and other similar forums out there is that there are a bunch of PRO's here.

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I'm sure the users at all the websites express the same sentiments.

I'm sure the users at all the websites express the same sentiments.

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Exactly. I primarily hang around on a CR4 which is a engineering site and Red Power Magazine which is a bunch of international farm equipment buffs.

Every site has it's own finer points I like and its variations over the others that set them apart.

So far after taking my spare time to day to have a look around on AAC I started to see names of members I have not seen here for so long I never realized it. Wow, to me it was like seeing the whole gang from here as I knew of them a year or two ago. Really not what I expected to find.

Kinda makes here feel oddly empty now knowing exactly who all has left or dropped back so far on posting as to be at the point I forgot about them.

JoeJester said:

One thing I did notice at EDA was the [SOLVED] indicator. I can imagine that being labor intensive on the volunteer moderators, especially in the beginning.

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Isn't the OP who sets that up? I think I did it a few times but not sure now.

Yes, it is the OP that sets the "solved" flag. It does not lock the thread.

John

jpanhalt said:

Yes, it is the OP that sets the "solved" flag. It does not lock the thread.

John

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hi John,
Do we have any stat's for how often the OP uses this option, it sounds a good idea if its used.
Eric

EDA Board was recently sold by Gulson to WTWH Media (https://www.edaboard.com/thread296233.html ). I do not have any stats, but the new owner might. It is not uncommon to see the solved flag, but it is certainly not used consistently.

Like you, I can see a purpose in having that flag for people who are following a thread, but not subscribed to it, or more particularly for those who find it in a search. To be really useful for the latter, however, one would need more consistency in its use, which would add to the burden of moderators. It's a nice add-on, but for ETO right now, I don't think it would add an awful lot to ease of use.

John

why leave the burden to the mod team? just let the OP set it, some will some wont, but on balance any that are set would be a bonus particularly for searches as mentioned. Besides surely it is upto the OP to decide if they feel there question was solved or not, i think adding yet another judgement call to the moderation teams work would lead to yet more grumbles from some, plus add yet more work

I like the idea of [solved] ... especially if the OP does it. Its like a public "thank you" to those that responded.

I am certainly against tasking volunteer moderators with more work ... which covers every type of forum, not just ETO.

Hi Joe

You are a good guy that thinks too. Referring to your post above...the very last thing ETO needs is "volunteer moderators".

Guaranteed, all will end in a "train smash". People like alecT should rather be approached... thing is that is what happened to E. E is an excellent Mod..but his sharing of knowledge has suffered due to having to Moderate and help at the same time.

So, lot's of pressure on a good forum to KEEP performing. Without being blase, a good Forum is much like a good computer game.....

A case of get good people at the core. Keep the good people whilst attracting new ones. Sort out the bad from the useless...and so on.

Coming back to my words above, Fezder would be an excellent Mod......thing is he would be trashed by Members. And chancers. He ain't got the experience yet. He is still keen but learning too. He doe's not deserve that or is ready for it YET. It will put too much pressure on him.

Good, interested, cant keep away, just want to help, thank you sir for answering my question kind of people are out there... I love this kind of place...

Ultimately, I have no real solution. I guess, like anything in life...

Keeping core Members is where it all lies probably....keep them happy means you go forward and build. Just my 2c.

Regards,
tvtech