To answer your question, dv/dt depends on how you apply the voltage, doesn't it. Is it a ramp, square wave, sin, step, or what? Lets apply a 10 volt step to a 2.0 henry inductance with an internal resistance of 2 ohms. Applying a step voltage to a coil will cause it to produce an infinite backvoltage for an infinitesimal amount of time. This backvoltage will stop any current change in the coil at t=0. Any elementary textbook that delves into the physics of the coil will show you that the current with respect to time isCan we start with example? Suppose I have 1 f capacitor, connected with 10 volt DC battery. Now I want to find out voltage and current through capacitor. I know voltage and current represent over time
Formula i(t) =C dv/dt
Known value C= 1f, V =10v DC
dv/dt is rate of change of voltage. We need derivatives of voltage over time. How to find out dv/dt?
Internal 2 ohm resistance limit current going through coil. I think if there is no resistance, inductor will behave as short circuitYou can see the current is limited by the internal 2 ohm resistance to 5 amps. Now, what will the current plot be if the coil has no resistance? Can you figure it out? Give it a try.
Ratch
Welcome to ETO, William!
Well said. I learned the more complex concepts (beyond E=I/R) by practical experience and only later learned the math behind them (differential and integral relationships). The real-world applications made the math much, much easier to grasp.
If I may ask, where do you call home?
Sadly, a life of practical experience, in today's work place, appears to be useless.I will note, not incidentally, that having two AS degrees and a third waiting for paperwork (which I'm not really that interested to complete) has not made me one bit more interesting to employers
Wrong! You are treating the inductor as a resistor. Your post #14 pertains to a capacitor, not an inductor. Everything you need to know is given in my last post. Use the math, and may the calculations be with you. Again, what will the current curve look like if a step voltage is applied to a inductor with no internal resistance?Internal 2 ohm resistance limit current going through coil. I think if there is no resistance, inductor will behave as short circuit
Have you seen my post 14. There is example,
Every time you adjust the heat while cooking a roast or a thick steak on a grill you use calculus to compute the cooking time to perfection (to cook all the way through while not burning them). The mental process of adjusting cooking times and applied heat is a calculus rate of change equation.
Hello RatchWrong! You are treating the inductor as a resistor. Your post #14 pertains to a capacitor, not an inductor. Everything you need to know is given in my last post. Use the math, and may the calculations be with you. Again, what will the current curve look like if a step voltage is applied to a inductor with no internal resistance?
Ratch
OK I try to make simple
Formula
I(t) = C dv /dt
C is capcitance, dv/dt rate of change of voltage over time
Question : what should I know to find out dv/dt?
Hello Ratch
I think step voltage means constant voltage source. Voltage will be same for all values of time. Example. 10 volt will be same for 1s, 2s, 3s....... Etc. When step voltage applied across ideal inductor (no internal resistance), current through inductor will increase while the voltage across it remain constant. Is it right way? I will do calculation and post soon.
Certainly the current will increase when voltage is applied across an inductor. Current will not stay at zero or reverse, will it? The question is what will the current curve look like when the voltage is first applied and afterwards. Yes, a step is discontinuous at a finite point in time, usually zero. Something like this is what I had in mind.Hello Ratch
I think step voltage means constant voltage source. Voltage will be same for all values of time. Example. 10 volt will be same for 1s, 2s, 3s....... Etc. When step voltage applied across ideal inductor (no internal resistance), current through inductor will increase while the voltage across it remain constant. Is it right way? I will do calculation and post soon.
"William Brohinsky, post: 1273117, member: 262933e b
OKDon't be discouraged, because the answer is not that hard to find.
Ratch
You gave an answer for R=2 . I asked for the current curve for R=0. Back to the books for you.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you're asking a sensible question.I will ask you a question similar to what I asked Vead. What will the current curve of the inductor, with the same specifications as I gave Vead, look like if a 1 amp step current is applied to the inductor. By a curve, I mean the beginning and end of the step current.
Ratch
I'm sorry, but I don't think you're asking a sensible question.
If you apply a 1-Amp current to an inductor, that says you are going to do anything possible in the world to force 1 amp through that inductor. This will not happen, unless your ideal inductor (with R=0) also happens to lack the ability to build a magnetic field when a current is applied. In which case, at the beginning of the 1Amp current pulse, you will go from 0A to 1A, and at the end from 1A to 0A. However, by simplifying the inductor to an idealized short, you have eliminated any kind of inductor action, and by applying an idealized 1Amp source as a pulse, you've eliminated the possibility that the "current curve" will be anything else but that input current 'curve.'
If you allow the inductor to build a magnetic field, and you force 1A to flow in the first instant of application to the inductor, you create an illogical situation. I'm not sure there is a lot of benefit in pursuing that, myself.
After Google search and reading book, I don't see the formula where I can find out time constant for inductor. There is formula for RC, RL combination And if I use same formula and put the value of r=0 than time constant t=L/R=2/0 which is not possibleYou gave an answer for R=2 . I asked for the current curve for R=0. Back to the books for you.
Ratch
Uhhh...yeah. Don't get hung up on the magnetic field surrounding the inductor when current is present, indeed.First of all, I specified a step function, not a pulse. That means that that current source will be 1 amp from t=0 until the end of time. In this problem, whether R = 0 or R=2, is insignificant in comparison to the large resistance of the current source. Let me modify the problem a little. Suppose the current source is one million volts in series with one million ohms of resistance. Now , what will the current curve look like? Assume that the inductor will act like an inductor. Don't get hung up on the magnetic field surrounding the inductor when current is present.
Ratch
After Google search and reading book, I don't see the formula where I can find out time constant for inductor. There is formula for RC, RL combination And if I use same formula and put the value of r=0 than time constant t=L/R=2/0 which is not possible
There are no hidden gotchas, and the problem has a succinct, reasonable answer. Just as there was a solution for the problem I gave Vead, there is a rational solution for the problem I gave you. If you don't know how to find the solution, just say so, and I will give you the solution which I am sure you will agree is correct. You can get a hint how to solve the problem by reading the solution I gave Vead.Uhhh...yeah. Don't get hung up on the magnetic field surrounding the inductor when current is present, indeed.
" Lets apply a 10 volt step to a 2.0 henry inductance with an internal resistance of 2 ohms. Applying a step voltage to a coil will cause it to produce an infinite backvoltage for an infinitesimal amount of time."..."You can see the current is limited by the internal 2 ohm resistance to 5 amps. Now, what will the current plot be if the coil has no resistance? Can you figure it out? Give it a try." <- your original attempt at this.
"Wrong! You are treating the inductor as a resistor. Your post #14 pertains to a capacitor, not an inductor. Everything you need to know is given in my last post." <- your response to Vead's first try
"I will ask you a question similar to what I asked Vead. What will the current curve of the inductor, with the same specifications as I gave Vead, look like if a 1 amp step current is applied to the inductor. By a curve, I mean the beginning and end of the step current." <- your posit to me
"First of all, I specified a step function, not a pulse. That means that that current source will be 1 amp from t=0 until the end of time." <- the beginning of your latest riposte. Note that your "By a curve, I mean the beginning and end of the step current". Compare that to "the end of time".
"In this problem, whether R = 0 or R=2, is insignificant in comparison to the large resistance of the current source." <- Nice of you to mention this, seeing as how you haven't mentioned it before.
I am doing my best to help, but you are doing a great job of trying to embarrass people, both those who are asking for help and trying to help. I don't know why. But if you want me to be your performing monkey, it ain't going to happen.
If you still feel a need to challenge me, you can try stating a problem with all the hidden gotchas on the outside at the outset. I might take the challenge. I might decide there's no point and ignore you. After all, all you've been doing, at least with me, is demonstrating how an engineer can start from stupid assumptions based on insufficient information and arrive at stupid conclusions. That's a bad way to operate, and a bad way to try to make other people appear to be operating.
I have to admit to feeling quite ill-used, and I am surprised that Vead is putting up with it, as well.
Can we start with example? Suppose I have 1 f capacitor, connected with 10 volt DC battery. Now I want to find out voltage and current through capacitor. I know voltage and current represent over time
Formula i(t) =C dv/dt
Known value C= 1f, V =10v DC
dv/dt is rate of change of voltage. We need derivatives of voltage over time. How to find out dv/dt?
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