Canned responce for possible school work posts

[Sceadwian]

I hate having to come up with something new every time or getting irritated and going on a rant, I saw the post bellow that Hero999 made and it seemed appropriate.

I was wondering if anyone else might have any ideas or modifications for a decent 'canned' response to any thread that starts out with no information and lofty goals.

The goal is simple, keep the reply as short and simple as possible while attempting to be encouraging to the original poster to provide as many details
as possible about their knowledge, goals, and resources. The secondary goal would be to use very simple language to avoid confusing posters who don't speak English fluently.

We don't mind helping you but we won't do all of the work for you. Please post what you've already done including any ideas you've had and we might be able to make some suggestions. If you've got completely no idea then may be it's your lecuturer's fault and it isn't right that you make him/her look good by cheating and copying from the Internet.

 

[audioguru]

I have a canned response to nooby school kids asking me on a PM to do their homework for them:
1) Ask your teacher to help you.
2) I am not a Sir, I am a Cool Dude!
3) I am not your teacher.
4) Go away and bother somebody else.

 

[3v0]

I think what Hero999 posted is a good place to start.
We could just use that if it is OK with him.

Maybe a dedicated forum for students to ask questions would keep them out of the others.

 

[HarveyH42]

A dedicated forum would be great. Course work posts outside the forum would be considered off-topic and moved/removed. Unfortunately more work for our already stressed moderator. There could be a sticky-post about details and information to include with posts, which will increase the chances of positive responses.

Not sure a standard, canned reply is a good way to go. New members and first post usually aren't the best indicator of intent. True, most of the time they only post the one time, and never return. We can't scare off all the new member who make a bad first impression. They should be given an operatunity to learn what this comunity is all about. New members keeps the forum going strong, otherwise it turns into a private club.

We are under no obligation to read or respond to any post, best just to ignore them, or ask a lot of questions. I'll probably never understand how some of these people could be on the internet, find this site, most likely by using a search engine (like I did), and still request information that would be easy to find, likely more accurate (data sheets, app notes...).

 

[mramos1]

Maybe an icon that links to Hero999's message. First one there clicks reply, clicks the icon.

If you made them a forum I would think they will not get answers and venture back.

 

[Leftyretro]

A dedicated forum would be great. Course work posts outside the forum would be considered off-topic and moved/removed. Unfortunately more work for our already stressed moderator. There could be a sticky-post about details and information to include with posts, which will increase the chances of positive responses.

Not sure a standard, canned reply is a good way to go. New members and first post usually aren't the best indicator of intent. True, most of the time they only post the one time, and never return. We can't scare off all the new member who make a bad first impression. They should be given an operatunity to learn what this comunity is all about. New members keeps the forum going strong, otherwise it turns into a private club.

We are under no obligation to read or respond to any post, best just to ignore them, or ask a lot of questions. I'll probably never understand how some of these people could be on the internet, find this site, most likely by using a search engine (like I did), and still request information that would be easy to find, likely more accurate (data sheets, app notes...).

Well I'm certainly a new comer to this site, but this suggestion of a seperate forum for course work questions sounds like a very effective idea.

That way people that like to or want to help students can respond at will and those that tire of such constant requests could avoid them. We had a similar problem at the vintage audio site I belong to. A large number of posts were from newcomers that just wanted a valuation price on a specific piece of hi-fi gear they wanted to flip on E-bay or whatever. We just made a forum called 'Dollars and Cents' for such requests. Moderators would move any request posted in other forums and soon that problem went away.

Lefty

 

[Hero999]

Wow a thread devoted to lazy students, somehow I don't think they're worth the trouble.

The main reason I developed the canned response is because, I often felt that I was putting more effort in to my reply than the author.

I suppose a forum to help students might be a good idea providing they don't abuse it. There could also be an electronics links section for common queries. On second thoughts why does there need to be a section devoted to students? Can't there just be a general electronics questions section?

I hate it when someone asks a question and then expects anything on a plate,I don't care whether they're students or not, I just hate lazy people.

 

[HarveyH42]

Another good one would a place for some basic information and tutororials. We go through some of the same topics every few months, and we also get some good posts for how-to tutorials that would be good placed some where convient. Maybe get members to write up some of their best tips, or go back through past posts, and submit them to a FAQ area.

Think if we could get more completed projects up in that area, it might cut down on some of the "I need any project..." posts some. Although, I must confess that I seldom actually 'finish' or 'complete' most things, usually happy when it functions, and move on to another interest. Usually, there are a few minor bugs that need corrected, or the working circuit has evolved considerably since drawing a schematic. Maybe one out of ten circuits make it into some sort of enclosure...

 

[gramo]

Its a public forum, and something’s will never change. In a way its good, in a way its bad. But personally I enjoy the challenge of making/coming up with ideas for people, and I have learnt a wealth of information over the last 3 months just perusing the forums.

So I guess it’s good that the "word of mouth" is getting so many people on the site, sure many are asking the same questions that have been asked before, or homework they have been assigned - but every piece of information we put in only expands Electro-Tech's knowledge base and popularity. There's always that chance that in that thread a Q&A that you always wanted to know/had been pondering about.

And its bad due to the "freebe" homework answers (amongst a few other things), but I'm thinking that if a kid didn’t completely understand how the process worked, the teacher would be all over that in seconds. They are still learning at the end of the day, its just assisted learning

If you don’t feel the need to write a reply, then don’t At the end of the day, what’s a forum without people to ask/answer questions.

 

[mramos1]

Leave it the way it is and paste Hero999's canned response.

If we have links to other places we are just a cheap version of google, and they should have went there first.

Hero should add a "did you check on google?". Maybe a tutorial on google Kidding.

 

[Sceadwian]

The problem is if even if there were a student only 'folder' they wouldn't use it, 99% of the people that require canned responces post in the first folder/thread they find that seems applicable, as can be attested to the few random threads that are poked by people asking for schematics (at least two that I can think of in the last week that are 6+ months old) the rest are in the General electronics chat, when questions regarding school work should be prefaced with several paragraphs of text and appear in the electronic projecta folder. I long ago gave up on trying to get people to post in the proper folder, even a dedicated system operator couldn't possibly re-organize all the posts in the proper folders.

 

[AllVol]

99% of the people that require canned responces post in the first folder/thread they find that seems applicable

The description of our General Electronics section encourages this very type of inquiry:

"eg: Dont know what a part does? Dont know how to read a circuit? Want to get an opinion?"

To someone just looking for an answer, that seems like a good place to start, and if that is true, then we should not complain about the postings.

 

[Hero999]

One thing I do watch out for is anyone asking for the code or design to do something. I don't mind helping people, e.g. if someone asks how to build a power supply with a certain current and voltage, I don't mind pointing them to formulae for calculating: the resistors values on an LM317, ripple, input current but I tend to avoid doing all the calculations for them. I don't mind using calculations to prove whether their their design works of not though.

In my opinion the value of engineering as a whole is declining and this hasn't been helped by some colleges. The college I went to was crap, the lecturers helped us too much and almost everyone copied each other. I don't mind teaching people but I don't want to make the situation any worse than it is by spoon feeding people. Even if they're just a hobbyist I still want to feel as though their doing the project (not me); I don't see the point in having electronics as a hobby if you're not willing to learn.

The bottom line is I will open a can of "do your own work" if I feel that someone is asking me to do something for them rather than asking me to help them with something.

 

[ericgibbs]

Hi,

I dont think anyone can be sure 'initially' that an OP is asking an homework question.

I have seen a number of members come unstuck, making a wrong assumption, and posting sarcastic remarks.
The OP has replied, obviously quite annoyed.

If a member believes the question is homework based, he should just ignore it.
The topic maybe of interest to another member who considers it worthy of a helpful response.

If the current teaching methods are as bad as is being suggested, then the students need all the outside help they can get.

The posts which I find annoying are the ones that ask for complete program codings or full schematics,
not having taken the trouble to post any work of their own work.

As a thread develops, it soon becomes clear what level of experience/competence the OP has and how much of
his own time he's put into his project.

I think we should not forget that we were all newbies once and still wet behind the ears.


Eric

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

If the current teaching methods are as bad as is being suggested, then the students need all the outside help they can get.

The posts which I find annoying are the ones that ask for complete program codings or full schematics,
not having taken the trouble to post any work of their own work.

That's the problem - particularly with students from India/Pakistan - they come here wanting all their work doing for them - wanting to CHEAT.

I think anyone here will help a genuine attempt?, posting what they have done so far, and asking for suggestions with problems they may have.

But many of the questions are basically:

"I'm am idle student, I haven't paid attention in class, I haven't done any work, I've got to produce a fully working project and documentation by next Tuesday - could someone please send it all to me"

PS "Please put my name at the bottom, as I'm too lazy to edit a couple of words".

 

[ericgibbs]

hi,

quoted: Nigel
"I'm am idle student, I haven't paid attention in class, I haven't done any work, I've got to produce a fully working project and documentation by next Tuesday - could someone please send it all to me"

PS "Please put my name at the bottom, as I'm too lazy to edit a couple of words".

I saw a recent posting on another forum, where the OP posted a full listing of a program assembler, asking for someone to explain how it worked.

He had obviously downloaded or copied from it somewhere, but what pi***d the forum members off,
the OP had replaced the original authors name with his own.'Written by XXXXXX' ...

He was blasted and rightly so.

Eric

 

[Hero999]

I dont think anyone can be sure 'initially' that an OP is asking an homework question.

I have seen a number of members come unstuck, making a wrong assumption, and posting sarcastic remarks.
The OP has replied, obviously quite annoyed.

I 'm not advocating posting sarcastic remarks (alright I've done that in the past but I don't think it's the way to tackle the problem).

I don't think my canned reply is sarcastic, mocking or offensive; it's supposed to encourage the original poster to think for them self before asking any further questions. I think it's better to respond in an appropriate manner rather than ignoring them because if they decide to do some work and ask more questions it will benefit both them and the forum.

 

[dknguyen]

The problem is if even if there were a student only 'folder' they wouldn't use it, 99% of the people that require canned responces post in the first folder/thread they find that seems applicable, as can be attested to the few random threads that are poked by people asking for schematics (at least two that I can think of in the last week that are 6+ months old) the rest are in the General electronics chat, when questions regarding school work should be prefaced with several paragraphs of text and appear in the electronic projecta folder. I long ago gave up on trying to get people to post in the proper folder, even a dedicated system operator couldn't possibly re-organize all the posts in the proper folders.

Then perhaps a way to make it really obvious is to stick the really specific forums at the top of the list and the really general ones at the bottom. General electronics, robotics, and microcontrollers at the bottom, with datasheet/parts requests, chitchat, and alternative energy at the top.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Then perhaps a way to make it really obvious is to stick the really specific forums at the top of the list and the really general ones at the bottom. General electronics, robotics, and microcontrollers at the bottom, with datasheet/parts requests, chitchat, and alternative energy at the top.

The cheating students aren't the type of people who pay any attention to titles!.

 

[Optikon]

The best canned response is none at all. Why should anyone bother with it? Seeing as how most first time homework posters never return, this is also efficient.