Current limiting Help PLZ

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Frosty_47

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Hello every one!

I am trying to limit the current down to anywhere between 2.5A-3A. Basically, I like to limit the current to my Pettier Cooler that I like to use to chill my over clocked CPU. I don't want to use a resistor because that would be to inefficient and a lot of heat would be generated. I would like to use LM350 regulator to limit the current. I found this in the datasheet...

**broken link removed**

Will that work for LM350 as well ? If it works, than the 0.4Ohm resistor should only dissipate around 3.6 Watts + 3.75 Watt regulator dissipation. So the total heat dissipation should be around 7.35 Watts than ?. If my calculations are accurate than this is much better than using a resistor to limit the current. Or is it ?

Thanks,


Andrew Frost
 
I don't want to use a resistor because that would be to inefficient and a lot of heat would be generated.
You would waste exactly the same amount of heat. The only advantage of using a constant current source is that the current will stay steady if the input voltage varies.
If you wish to be efficient, you must use a current mode switching regulator.
 
The peltier I have is 150W so at 12V input it will consume 12.5Amps. In order to limit the current to 3 Amps with a resistor, I would have to use a 3 Ohm resistor. That means the resistor would have to dissipate 9 Watts. I do want a constant current source though. I do no like to go with switching due to noise issues and inexperience. I don't like to go with a single resistor either. So will this circuit limit the current to 3A?

**broken link removed**

Thanks!
 
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mmmm switching regulators...

On the other thought, Switching regulator will definitely be of much higher efficiency but, I never dealt with switching before so it might be little bit scary for me. Although I must admit, that if I never start, than I will never get any experience with switching regs. If I were to implement switching regulator instead, will it cause any problems with my PSU due to noise? Will I have to add noise filters?

Thank you!
 
Can someone please make a recomendation for a particular switching current regulator that I can use to limit the current to 3 A...

Thank you !
 
Is it rated for 12V? I mean, is it 150W at 12V or is it always 150W no matter what the voltage range? Probably not, but I'm not too familiar with the details of these modules. Are you having trouble because you are cooling the processor down TOO much and getting condensation or something? Is that why you want to limit the current and not cool as much?

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any better/simpler way than just using the resistor. 9W isn't too bad. Just get a 3hm: 25W power resistor and don't worry about wasting the current. Try to mount the resistor on metal so it sinks some heat. 9W might get a little hot.

How about buying a less powerful Peltier module that will do what you want with 12V?
 
Thanks

Thank you for your suggestions!

I don't understand one part of the circuit that Hero999 provided. Where am I going to get +15V for pin 8 and -15V for pin 4 of the TL082?
Oh, and in order to limit the current to 3A, all I will have to do is change the value of R6? But to what value? Please explain.

Thank you very much!
 
It doesn't need to be +15V and -15V, it could be +12V and -12V which is supplied by a typical computer power supply.
 
Oohhhhh

Hero999 said:
It doesn't need to be +15V and -15V, it could be +12V and -12V which is supplied by a typical computer power supply.

The -12V on my PSU is limitted to 0.5A, will that be sufficient ? Oh, and what value should R6 be in order to limit the current to 3A ?

Thank you Hero999!
 
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Off course the -12V 0.5A supply will be fine. All the current comes from the +12V rail, the -12V is only used by the op-amp which doesn't take much.

The article I posted shows you how to calculate the resistor values.
 
peltiers aren't very efficient, so running them at under the power they require will be very unneficient. please also remember, peltiers don't generate cold, they only move heat to the other side, so basically the lower the power you give them, the lower the heat moving capacity is.
 
Hero999 said:
Off course the -12V 0.5A supply will be fine. All the current comes from the +12V rail, the -12V is only used by the op-amp which doesn't take much.

The article I posted shows you how to calculate the resistor values.


I read the article over and over and can't seem to find (or perhaps understand) how to calculate the value of R6. Please help me out. I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!
 
I had a feeling you were going to say that.

Is this because you don't understand how the circuit works?

If this is the case you might find it hard to build and it'd be a pretty pointless exercise since you won't have learnt anything.

However, I will help you to understand it.

First you need to understand how the LM2576 works when used as an ordinary constant voltage switching regulator. If you look at the data-sheet (use Google) you'll find that pin 4 (FDB, Feedback) is connected to the middle a potential divider which is connected to across the output of the regulator. To keep the output voltage constant LM2576 ensures that the voltage across the lower resistor in the potential divider is equal to the internal voltage reference of 1.237V; it does this by using an internal error amplifier which adjusts the switching duty cycle accordingly. When the voltage on the lower resistor starts to drop below 1.237V, it increases the duty cycle and when the voltage on the lower resistor starts to rise above 1.237V, it increases the duty cycle; this is know as PWM (Pulsed Width Modulation) regulation control.

The formula for calculating the output voltage comes from the potential divider equation. I'm not going to post the actual formula here, it can be found on the data-sheet for the LM2576. However, I'll give an example so you can understand it. Suppose you make both the resistors the same in the potential divider, so it will divide the output voltage by 2. The voltage across the bottom resistor will be 1.237V which is half the output voltage (remember the divider always divides the output by 2) so the output voltage will be double the reference or 2.474V. If you configure the potential divider so it divides the output voltage be 3 then the output voltage will be three times the reference voltage of 1.237V or 3.711V.

Got it? If not then you might want to research more on potential dividers and then how linear regulators work (LM317, LM350 etc.). You can't understand something like this until you've grasped basic concepts like this.

Now let's look at the circuit in the article. Rsc is a current sense resistor, ohm's law says that the voltage across it is directly proportional to the current flowing through it. If you used a 1hm: resistor it will have 1V across it when 1A flows through it, if you used a 500mhm: resistor it would have 500mV across it when 1A flows through it.

So how does that help us build a constant current source?

I know, we could find a way to fix the voltage across Rsc so the current through it will remain the same! This is exactly what this circuit does.

In this circuit the duty cycle is adjusted so the voltage drop across Rsc, and therefore the current though Rsc, is kept constant regardless of the load on the regulator's output.

Now how do we do that?

Remember our LM2576 alway adjusts the duty cycle so the voltage on the FDB pin always remains at 1.237V. All this circuit does is measures the voltage across Rsc, multiplies it by a certain value and feeds it into the FDB pin.

What if we if we used 1hm: for Rsc and multiplied the voltage across it by 2 then feed the output into the FDB pin?

The LM2576 would keep the voltage on the FDB pin at 1.237V which is twice the voltage across Rsc (remember we multiplied it by 2). Therefore the voltage across Rsc would be 1.237/2 = 0.6185V and I = V/R so the output current would be 0.6185A or 618.5mA.

Alright let's look at the circuit again to see how it measures the voltage across Rsc and multiplies it by a certain value.

IC2a forms a differential amplifier with a gain of one (Google it if you don't understand) which measures the voltage across Rsc. IC1b forms a non-inverting amplifier (again, Google it) which multiplies the output from IC1a by a scaling factor equal to R7/R6+1 in this case it's 5.15.

Now look at it again, we measure the voltage across Rsc, multiply it by 5.15 then feed it into the FDB pin. The LM2576 will try to keep the voltage on the FDB pin at 1.237V which is 5.15 times greater than the voltage across the resistor. Therefore the voltage across the resistor will always be kept at 1.237/5.15 = 0.24V, the value of Rsc is 0.12hm: so if the ohm's law says if the voltage across it is 0.24 the current thought it = V/R = 0.24/0.12 = 2A.

To summarise this there are two ways of changing the current: you can either change Rsc or change the gain of IC2b.
Here is a list of formulae for calculating the current:

[latex]I_{OUT} = \frac{V_{REF}}{VR_{SC}}[/latex]

[latex]VR_{SC} =R_{SC} \times Av[/latex]

[latex]Av = 1+\frac{R_7}{R_6}[/latex]

Av is the gain of the non-inverting amplifier.
Vref is the reference voltage of the LM2576.
VRsc is the voltage across the sense resistor.

Putting all of the above into one formula:
[latex]I_{OUT} = \frac{V_{REF}}{R_{SC}(1+\frac{R_7}{R_6})}[/latex]

For optimum performance, R5 needs to be the equlavent value of R6 and R7 in parallel.
[latex]R_5 = \frac{R_5 \times R_6}{R5+R_6}[/latex]

Setting the gain of the amplifier and voltage across the current sense resistor is a bit of a compromise. For optimum performance you want the voltage across the sense resistor to be as low as possible but for the circuit to remain stable the amplifier's gain shouldn't be too high. in the example given, 0.24hm: dissipates only 480mW at 2A and the amplifier will be stable with a gain of only 5.15.
 
Thank You Very Much !

Thank you for explaining the circuit to me. At least now I have some understanding of the circuit. I figured that the best way for me to achieve 3A of current is to use 0.22 Ohm Rsc resistor because its available to me. So I calculated the following:

Gain of Ic2b = 1.87 because 1.237V \ 1.87 = 0.66V across Rsc

And 0.66V \ 0.22Ohm = 3A

Thus R6 needs to be 115K Ohm because (1 + 100k\115k) = 1.87G

R5 should therefore be 53.5K ohm

I am not very confident about the Vout.

Can you please explain

"Suppose you make both the resistors the same in the potential divider, so it will divide the output voltage by 2.The voltage across the bottom resistor will be 1.237V which is half the output voltage (remember the divider always divides the output by 2) so the output voltage will be double the reference or 2.474V. If you configure the potential divider so it divides the output voltage be 3 then the output voltage will be three times the reference voltage of 1.237V or 3.711V."

What resistors are you talking about in "Suppose you make both the resistors the same in the potential divider, so it will divide the output voltage by 2." ?

I found the formula in the datasheet:

Vout - Vref(1+R2\R1)

but not sure how to implement it into this circuit because I don't know what resistors serve as voltage devider in this circuit.

Thank you Hero999 !!!!
 
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Perhaps I'm simple, but couldn't you install a large heatsink with a powerful fan to cool this beast? Also, if I remember correctly, Peltier's are slow to move the heat energy, so you may toast the processor because heat is not displaced fast enough. Reducing it's current to less than 25% of it's requirement will probably make the problem mentioned even worse.
There are water-cooled systems available for situations like this. Check with your local computer chains. Water has six times the displacement capacity of air. I heard of a guy who didn't install this properly and came home one night to find his PC leaking profusely. Fortunately the PC's power was off at the time.

How much luck have you had with this Peltier so far?

Good luck with this!
kenjj
 

Thank you for the suggestion. I am well aware of H2O cooling systems and I have build custom ones in the past. I already tested my peltier at 3A of current through a power resistor and it works very well. I am not going to use large heat sinks because that’s just extra heat in my case (maybe its ok for 1 peltier but what if I decide to cool my video card, North Bridge, RAM, and CPU all at the same time ? than I will have a total of 4 peltiers and my power resistors will be wasting almost 40Watts of heat!). 40 Watts of HEAT is a LOT inside any computer case and I will have to install like another dozen fans just to keep the air in the case cool.
 
Frosty_47 said:
I already tested my peltier at 3A of current through a power resistor and it works very well. I am not going to use large heat sinks because that’s just extra heat in my case

You appear to be missing the point?, using the IC regulator dissipates exactly the same heat inside your case - it's no different to using a resistor. Use a simple (LARGE) resistor, and mount it outside the case on a suitable heatsink. Or use an IC regulator, and mount that on a similar sized external heatsink.
 
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