Educate younglings

[SimonTHK]

Hello
I am in the situation where I have to educate very Young ppl. Age 14-18
Also they partly pay for the courses, so it has to be fun. Kinda like going to football. I am teacher for an after schooltime institution, and my courses will be about building robots.

I ofcourse have alot of ideas on how this could be done, but I wanted to ask here aswell.
I have to educate while having so much fun that they come again by themselfes. Lego mindstorm is a way to laern about programming, araduino robot aswell. Maybe some easy Electronic Projects.
Maybe I should just start out with programming microprocessors and using em to turn motors on and off, stuff like that. Put some teaching in on Electronics now and then.

Any ideas that lean towards "fun"?

 

[alec_t]

Flashing LEDs are a good start. Circuits for that can go from very simple (1 LED) to complex (sequencing rows/columns of LEDs, scrolling messages etc). Discrete components, logic ICs or micros can control the LEDs.
Electronic music?

 

[large_ghostman]

flashing leds and particularly making a display with them that says a slightly bad word! mindstorm not so good its expensive! pic would be my choice but i would say that, motor control and line following robot big winner, especially if cheap simple chassis and micro for the brain, keep electronics side basic Ohms law is ok but node analysis is turn off!
i like C but to be honest basic is probably better or if they are a bit ermmmmm well challenged then go for picaxe. ask them what they want to learn and make sure you give a choice. most will enjoy things like putting together a simple line follower chassis and that kind of thing, if its cheap most can do it but go the lego route and only some can join in at home

any questions ask away, i am slightly outside the age group as i am 13 but 14 isnt so different


edit
forgot to add DO NOT CALL THEM YOUNGLING's they will not like it or you for calling them it

 

[SimonTHK]

If you can manage what you are telling me, and you are only 13, then I should be ok. My biggest concern was that it simply was too much for them. I know the line follower is a great idea, you get a bit of everything and with a fun goal.

The Picaxe is a great idea, given the price is sooo low. A small robot with motors for £48.60 is less than buying and building it yourself, with a bunch of sensors already on it. http://www.picaxe.com/Hardware/Robot-Kits/PICAXE-20X2-Microbot/
I agree with the lego thing. Very pricy and is mostly a toy more than it is real teaching about robots.

Working with LED´s and maybe sound should definitely be in the course somehow.

 

[Ian Rogers]

The ability to absorb data differ greatly form person to person.... LG has a genuine interest in the art of electronics so will absorb the information like a sponge...

I have had several "Apprentices" here at our humble electronics firm... One or two have been readily available to teach... Their brains seemed to be in sync... The others..... Oh dear!! Suffice to say, they aren't doing electronics now..

I think to teach young adults, you need to create that interest... They need to see and create real world applications.. Just learning for the sake of learning doesn't work.

I had a young lad ( work experience )... We bought him a complete Arduino setup.. Showed him how to write the code for the motors, LCD etc... He loved it!! A year on and we were to receive another student from the same school...

He isn't coming... Excuse after excuse.... No interest atall...

 

[large_ghostman]

didnt goto school today as i was up all night being sick, Ian has made some good points, but i have been thinking about this all night, mainly because for the last couple of years i have searched everywhere for a course or someplace someone my age can go and learn this stuff and there just isnt anywhere. School does its best i guess, where we lived in Devon last year mum and dad drove me 55 miles round trip each day to a technology school as it was meant to place a heavy bias towards science and especially technology, the place was ok but the teaching was awful especially electronics, the Teacher was really nice but electronics teaching was his job and he had no interest in it so he read the class sheets handed out the work and that was it, even to the point that he had to google how to work out the resistor for a led because we wanted to add one to a project! we had the chance to do our own projects for the end of course work, i did a line follower with a few extra's on it, when it came time to mark the projects not one teacher in my school was able to understand my project or read any of my schematics or or projects notes. I got top marks but it fely hollow because i knew the marks were given by someone who didnt have a clue if my project was good or not!
so anyway back on track, sorry i got lost there.
the point is your course should offer more than is available, you will soon know who is really caught the bug or not so take something like a line follower, the one you linked to was ok but i bet there is a cheaper better way, find bare cheap chassis and scour ebay for cheap Chinese components like the resistors and Leds all motors. personally i would still go pic route but to make it easier maybe consider something like flow code, reason is if some or even one of them really takes to it then you have the chance to take that person into C code because you can tweak flow code as it outputs C anyway, no one is left behind then, some/most will do it all in flow code others will get home google and tweak there code in C (i would anyway). Contact microchip and tell them what you are doing be concise but leave nothing out (phone call best) then ASK for the chips as samples (not just pics but anything else you might need that they do), Microchip have been great with me and i think they would really help you out.
As for sound and leds this is where a line follower would be good choice, you can put leds on to indicate when the left/right sensor has detected the edge ect, as for sound then something like adding simple IR obstacle detector that beeps when it detects a obstacle in its path and makes other noises depending on what it is doing, never really got into flow code but that kind of thing should be easy to do in it and you can always tweak it .
main thing keep the maths to minimum for all but the most interested, spend 60% time building 30% coding and 10% theory. Most classes do the theory part of the lesson first then the fun stuff, if it was me and i was a teacher i would go straight to the building and other stuff then spend 10/15 mins at end explaining the theory behind what they have done. my reason for this is at the start of any lesson kids need time to settle and if you do the theory first none goes in, build first then most will by the end of the lesson want/be ready to be told how and why it was done like that



edit actually being sick was my excuse to mum i am way behind on my home project and only had art and PE and social studies at school so stayed home


edit 2

actually line follower is ok but maybe one that dosnt follow a line but just avoids obstacles then they can build mazes etc and more scope for sound and light

 

[large_ghostman]

another thing! if i was you i would offer a advanced course (they must do the first course first tho) promote it in the first course and do something like those gyro copter things with 4 motors on, its on my must build list, plenty scope for great learning and more complex tasks like pwm balancing etc and and with the ultra cheap Chinese wireless modules that are I2C you can build a really great project cheaply with loads of topics that can be covered! and trust me most kids would love one!

 

[gabeNC]

I've been going through this as well, teaching a group of boys, trying make it fun yet educational but only one out of three has an interest. Here is a few things that worked and some that didn't.

• Learning a DMM and o-scope they really liked, having that visual feedback and it wasn't so abstract. You could see when changing a resistor what that did to the current and apply that to Ohms law.
• Wiring 555 timers was okay, kind of anti-climatic for all that work and only see a LED flash. But of course you can use 555's for many things.
• Soldering was fun as well especially when breadboards can be fragile.
• There needs to be an end project in mind, something that grabs their imagination or interest. Relays that drive motors or somekind of a Rube Goldberg-ish crazy apparatus.

Being teenage boys they thought this book was good. https://www.amazon.com/High-Tech-Practical-Jokes-Evil-Genius-ebook/dp/B00115TAJ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384877213&sr=8-1&keywords=practical jokes electronics but i realize your class would probably be more advanced with robots and stuff.

 

[large_ghostman]

I've been going through this as well, teaching a group of boys, trying make it fun yet educational but only one out of three has an interest. Here is a few things that worked and some that didn't.

• Learning a DMM and o-scope they really liked, having that visual feedback and it wasn't so abstract. You could see when changing a resistor what that did to the current and apply that to Ohms law.
• Wiring 555 timers was okay, kind of anti-climatic for all that work and only see a LED flash. But of course you can use 555's for many things.
• Soldering was fun as well especially when breadboards can be fragile.
• There needs to be an end project in mind, something that grabs their imagination or interest. Relays that drive motors or somekind of a Rube Goldberg-ish crazy apparatus.

Being teenage boys they thought this book was good. https://www.amazon.com/High-Tech-Practical-Jokes-Evil-Genius-ebook/dp/B00115TAJ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384877213&sr=8-1&keywords=practical jokes electronics but i realize your class would probably be more advanced with robots and stuff.

was anti climax because like say doing all that just to flash a led is kind of to us. But take a 555 alter the circuit swap the led for a speaker and teach O scope with the 555 circuit even with just a led and bingo the 555 circuit is no longer a anti climax! loads of interest learning the Oscope for first time with a 555 timer, makes the circuit alot more fun and like i say add a speaker to make sounds and its more fun

 

[SimonTHK]

didnt goto school today as i was up all night being sick, Ian has made some good points, but i have been thinking about this all night, mainly because for the last couple of years i have searched everywhere for a course or someplace someone my age can go and learn this stuff and there just isnt anywhere. School does its best i guess, where we lived in Devon last year mum and dad drove me 55 miles round trip each day to a technology school as it was meant to place a heavy bias towards science and especially technology, the place was ok but the teaching was awful especially electronics, the Teacher was really nice but electronics teaching was his job and he had no interest in it so he read the class sheets handed out the work and that was it, even to the point that he had to google how to work out the resistor for a led because we wanted to add one to a project! we had the chance to do our own projects for the end of course work, i did a line follower with a few extra's on it, when it came time to mark the projects not one teacher in my school was able to understand my project or read any of my schematics or or projects notes. I got top marks but it fely hollow because i knew the marks were given by someone who didnt have a clue if my project was good or not!
so anyway back on track, sorry i got lost there.
the point is your course should offer more than is available, you will soon know who is really caught the bug or not so take something like a line follower, the one you linked to was ok but i bet there is a cheaper better way, find bare cheap chassis and scour ebay for cheap Chinese components like the resistors and Leds all motors. personally i would still go pic route but to make it easier maybe consider something like flow code, reason is if some or even one of them really takes to it then you have the chance to take that person into C code because you can tweak flow code as it outputs C anyway, no one is left behind then, some/most will do it all in flow code others will get home google and tweak there code in C (i would anyway). Contact microchip and tell them what you are doing be concise but leave nothing out (phone call best) then ASK for the chips as samples (not just pics but anything else you might need that they do), Microchip have been great with me and i think they would really help you out.
As for sound and leds this is where a line follower would be good choice, you can put leds on to indicate when the left/right sensor has detected the edge ect, as for sound then something like adding simple IR obstacle detector that beeps when it detects a obstacle in its path and makes other noises depending on what it is doing, never really got into flow code but that kind of thing should be easy to do in it and you can always tweak it .
main thing keep the maths to minimum for all but the most interested, spend 60% time building 30% coding and 10% theory. Most classes do the theory part of the lesson first then the fun stuff, if it was me and i was a teacher i would go straight to the building and other stuff then spend 10/15 mins at end explaining the theory behind what they have done. my reason for this is at the start of any lesson kids need time to settle and if you do the theory first none goes in, build first then most will by the end of the lesson want/be ready to be told how and why it was done like that



edit actually being sick was my excuse to mum i am way behind on my home project and only had art and PE and social studies at school so stayed home


edit 2

actually line follower is ok but maybe one that dosnt follow a line but just avoids obstacles then they can build mazes etc and more scope for sound and light

Picaxe seems to be an ok chip and very easy to program, though I read it is quite limited and I aint liking the BASIC language, but ya probably need that or flowchart for them I don't believe the picaxe programmer outputs C, or atleast I havnt figured out yet. It does create the BASIC language.
I am gonna speak with the school tomorrow and then I know what budget and how many hours Ive got. I will definitely try and make only fun sessions and do some creative projects. I imagined more theory but I am gonna throw that away for now.

 

[SimonTHK]

another thing! if i was you i would offer a advanced course (they must do the first course first tho) promote it in the first course and do something like those gyro copter things with 4 motors on, its on my must build list, plenty scope for great learning and more complex tasks like pwm balancing etc and and with the ultra cheap Chinese wireless modules that are I2C you can build a really great project cheaply with loads of topics that can be covered! and trust me most kids would love one!

Sure that could be a nice way to go. But again I need to wait and hear what the school has to say

 

[large_ghostman]

Picaxe seems to be an ok chip and very easy to program, though I read it is quite limited and I aint liking the BASIC language, but ya probably need that or flowchart for them I don't believe the picaxe programmer outputs C, or atleast I havnt figured out yet. It does create the BASIC language.
I am gonna speak with the school tomorrow and then I know what budget and how many hours Ive got. I will definitely try and make only fun sessions and do some creative projects. I imagined more theory but I am gonna throw that away for now.

i dont mess with flow code myself but i do know you can tweak it with C and C is kind of what it converts to. moveing little box's about on a screen is easy enough for even the most stupid well for just about anyone but then you also have a tool that the less stupid more advanced student can use by tweaking it in C so unlike basic wich lets face it isnt basic to learn flow code would let you do more fun advanced stuff without the idiots less advanced people being left out or out of there depth, most students would cough say £15 - £20 towards there own robot kit, and with careful blagging its surprising what companies like MC will donate if asked in the right way (i got free ICD3! off them and they have given me a sample's account).
as for more theory i think best chance for that is informal theory I.E wait to be asked why or how something works (you will be asked) then you add in the extra theory, most times when teachers do that kinda thing in my old school most the class ends up gathered around listening . you just gotta think like a kid (easy just turn your brain off and have fun)

 

[tvtech]

i dont mess with flow code myself but i do know you can tweak it with C and C is kind of what it converts to. moveing little box's about on a screen is easy enough for even the most stupid well for just about anyone but then you also have a tool that the less stupid more advanced student can use by tweaking it in C so unlike basic wich lets face it isnt basic to learn flow code would let you do more fun advanced stuff without the idiots less advanced people being left out or out of there depth, most students would cough say £15 - £20 towards there own robot kit, and with careful blagging its surprising what companies like MC will donate if asked in the right way (i got free ICD3! off them and they have given me a sample's account).
as for more theory i think best chance for that is informal theory I.E wait to be asked why or how something works (you will be asked) then you add in the extra theory, most times when teachers do that kinda thing in my old school most the class ends up gathered around listening . you just gotta think like a kid (easy just turn your brain off and have fun)

Hi LG

The electronics world need's more teachable, interested and intelligent young people like you. You are still supposedly a "kid" now. I can only but think of how great and well you will do once you are finished schooling etc. Your roots are sound and stable. You have astonishing knowledge for your age.

You have my utmost respect. Tell Dad (Jason) that he has a Champ in you. And always stay level headed and fair.

You are destined for great things

Regards,
tvtech

 

[large_ghostman]

Hi LG

The electronics world need's more teachable, interested and intelligent young people like you. You are still supposedly a "kid" now. I can only but think of how great and well you will do once you are finished schooling etc. Your roots are sound and stable. You have astonishing knowledge for your age.

You have my utmost respect. Tell Dad (Jason) that he has a Champ in you. And always stay level headed and fair.

You are destined for great things

Regards,
tvtech

aww thanks for that it's a really nice thing to say! most of my knowledge is from here!! i read books as well but the stuff i read and dont understand i get explained here, so my schooling in electronics is all down to the great people on here who take the time and trouble to answer my questions and explain things to me without making me feel like i have asked a stupid question! that gives me confidence to try more stuff read more things and ask alot more questions. it's a shame school isnt more like ETO.

 

[SimonTHK]

i dont mess with flow code myself but i do know you can tweak it with C and C is kind of what it converts to. moveing little box's about on a screen is easy enough for even the most stupid well for just about anyone but then you also have a tool that the less stupid more advanced student can use by tweaking it in C so unlike basic wich lets face it isnt basic to learn flow code would let you do more fun advanced stuff without the idiots less advanced people being left out or out of there depth, most students would cough say £15 - £20 towards there own robot kit, and with careful blagging its surprising what companies like MC will donate if asked in the right way (i got free ICD3! off them and they have given me a sample's account).
as for more theory i think best chance for that is informal theory I.E wait to be asked why or how something works (you will be asked) then you add in the extra theory, most times when teachers do that kinda thing in my old school most the class ends up gathered around listening . you just gotta think like a kid (easy just turn your brain off and have fun)

I agree with you, and I am in here to figure out which way I will go and how much I will put into it. First of I wanted to teach them C++ and electronics. Now the basic language seems so darn easy, that I really should be able to teach that to anyone. Doing it in flowchart is just waste of time, in my opinion right now, I can change as I already did. I think I can get some good stuff going on with basic and adding electronics whenever it becomes relevant.

And I agree with tvtech on what he just wrote When it comes to further education for you and if you want to go far, remember to get the mathematics aswell. It is fun to program and stuff, but in more advanced classes you need the math. In whatever way you go, math is what you want as the backbone for understanding the complicated electronics and programming aswell. But heck man you are only 13 xD. Just pick math and physics when you can and follow the classes. That is the stuff you really want to bring with you later on.

 

[SimonTHK]

Weeeelllll
I got the job starting next year.
Pew pew that was awesome, I allways wanted to educate people, since I allways felt good at it. The interview made me realise, that the things I can bring to that kind of school, is so great that any fun projects with just a tiny amount of learning, is enough to be great. So I am going to do more fun stuff, less sleepy stuff.
All fun ideas are welcome
I am going to start out with picaxe and Basic, since they where all over 17 years old, not 14 as I thought.

 

[large_ghostman]

Weeeelllll
I got the job starting next year.
Pew pew that was awesome, I allways wanted to educate people, since I allways felt good at it. The interview made me realise, that the things I can bring to that kind of school, is so great that any fun projects with just a tiny amount of learning, is enough to be great. So I am going to do more fun stuff, less sleepy stuff.
All fun ideas are welcome
I am going to start out with picaxe and Basic, since they where all over 17 years old, not 14 as I thought.

congratulations on the job!!

i dont want to be negative but at 17 picaxe and basic will cripple them! most will get stuck with basic and never move on and at 17 the picaxe isnt much of a challenge. personally i would still go pic and maybe C C18 or C8 is free as well as good IDE's and they do student versions. flashing leds and beeping speakers isnt going to do it at 17! quad copter wireless is more interesting but i am kinda too far from 17 to actually know for sure except my mates elder brothers have never shown any interest in my LED cube but were slightly into my line bot with metal detector on it.i would raise the bar for that age group and add a bit more theory as well not much but a smidge and do the theory first part off lesson as 17 is more settled than 14 and will expect to be told at start of each lesson what the goal is and why XYZ is being done, but like i say its out of my age range so i am making rough guess based on elder brothers i know rather than actual class experience with that age group.
gut feeling up the bar

 

[tvtech]

Hi Simon

Awesome. Follow your heart when teaching...Try to teach and do things that would of have made you happy as a keen learner.
Keep the fun coming while educating them. You are going to a be great success if you follow this route.

Congrats on the job . And please keep me posted

All the best,
tvtech

 

[SimonTHK]

congratulations on the job!!

i dont want to be negative but at 17 picaxe and basic will cripple them! most will get stuck with basic and never move on and at 17 the picaxe isnt much of a challenge. personally i would still go pic and maybe C C18 or C8 is free as well as good IDE's and they do student versions. flashing leds and beeping speakers isnt going to do it at 17! quad copter wireless is more interesting but i am kinda too far from 17 to actually know for sure except my mates elder brothers have never shown any interest in my LED cube but were slightly into my line bot with metal detector on it.i would raise the bar for that age group and add a bit more theory as well not much but a smidge and do the theory first part off lesson as 17 is more settled than 14 and will expect to be told at start of each lesson what the goal is and why XYZ is being done, but like i say its out of my age range so i am making rough guess based on elder brothers i know rather than actual class experience with that age group.
gut feeling up the bar

My biggest concern is, that I am there as a test. If I keep the student´s I get more working hours if I loose em I loose my job. They are there for free and to have fun with friends. They have to pick this instead of football or a music instrument.
You my friend, is way ahead of your age if you have build an LED cube (3d?). I would rather have it too easy and change it to difficult, the success rate is much higher that way than the other. Also I have only 4 hours a week to start with. It aint much, and is easy to forget some of what is learned (luckily I get a ton of money for it xD).
The leader which is a former teacher, told me that even the age, many of them will be scared if they get the feeling of too high difficulty level. A lot of them is just scared to show up, because they are with new people they don't know. It aint like a school.
So I will definitely start out very easy and see what happens.

 

[SimonTHK]

Hi Simon

Awesome. Follow your heart when teaching...Try to teach and do things that would of have made you happy as a keen learner.
Keep the fun coming while educating them. You are going to a be great success if you follow this route.

Congrats on the job . And please keep me posted

All the best,
tvtech

Thank you, I will