Britain's exit from the EU shouldn't affect someone using the American System, whatever that is.
Hi Joe.
I didnt write that well, so here is a better explanation.
I cant remember the names of the different formats used when you do a bibliography, one 'style' is apparently favoured by most universities in America (I think its named after one). So over here at my school, its lazilly called the American system.
Also over here the style used is dependent upon the course tutor, so you can be using 2 or more different styles at the same university. Music Man is likely to know a huge amount more than I about this, its just something we are told to be aware of. Academies are a odd kind of set up, I wont even try and explain how that works
, but roughly in my own case, it means a School. college and university are linked. So our partner institutions allow the students access to certain resources, one of these is the library system. For us as pupils this means we get access to journals, this isnt something the school could ever afford on its own.
To Answer Kiss's question............ I dont know how many (if any) fall foul of this at my school, normally in my year group it isnt expected for us to do bibliographies. Its mainly for those in the year above me, those who are doing a 4 year university course, the first of which they elect to do at school. I work on the principle that, going the extra mile, not only gives me practice but also makes my work stand out more. I am not actually naturally academic, so I will grab the extra point where ever I see one.
I am doing some advanced higher s, it isnt however that normal at my particular school. So those of us that do things like bibliographies, tend to stand out. This is especially so when your doing bibliographies in a class that dosnt require them. I dont know how the system works precisely, but the university pays a fee to publishers for X number of pupils. I would think that my friend would have been expected to pay the £35, for the article because he isnt doing ANY higher exams this year.
So strictly speaking he dosnt have any access to the advanced system, if he wants to use a paper then he would be expected to pay for it. Looking back, and after hearing Music Man give more info, I was a bit stupid. I kind of assumed that the uni or school had unlimited access, I did think that the restrictions were mainly a school system limitation. It didnt occur to me it was more a 'money' thing or the number of access accounts was limited due to financial reasons. It might not be (I still dont understand how its done!!), I was aware that he didnt have access to papers of the library system. My real mistake was in using my school account, had I of used pirate sources for the paper then we would both be in the clear.
Basically when asked we both told the truth, had he of said he paid for it from home, then in all honesty the school couldnt do anything. But we didnt really understand the system or how serious its taken.
So why does it happen to me?? Good question.
I dont tend to read the small print, and even when I do I tend to do what I feel is right or fair. I am learning fast that fair, is a bit like the Easter Bunny, it exists only in the mind of the young and stupid. The easy option would be to assume I was always doing something wrong, and cover myself ready for being caught. But I tend to have good intentions, and I am uncomfortable covering my tracks to get away with things. I prefer to just own up if I am in the wrong.
As to question 4.
I guess this is the bit that really caught us out, in a nutshell he was supposed to pay for the paper. He dosnt have access to them from the school system, so I guess the publisher didnt get £35 they would of got, had he paid for it at home. The school/Uni dosnt pay for him to have access, so in a way its seen as stealing. After Music Man had given the information, I did go back and ask some questions. He is 100% correct, published papers from Journals have there own set of rules! Totally unique to most other areas of life, I would think all the Academics here are well aware of the nuances of the system. But from Music Mangers post I get the impression, alot of people get caught out when you first delve into the system.
Looking deeper into it, Journals are a strange beast. Nothing is really 100% clear cut, for example a well used and known site (Pub Med), I use links from there on here. Many of the papers are put on the site from the papers Authors. You can often see the account they come from, what I didnt know however. Some of those papers, strictly speaking shouldnt be freely available on that site. I have no idea if the Authors get any agro or not, but I do know that 99% of the time no one says anything to PubMed for having the paper freely available on the site. It isnt a parite site, its a legit academic resource. But often if I find a paper I want and cant get from school, I find it on the publishers site, I then copy the index number and search on sites like Pub Med. Often you can find the paper free on Pub Med!! But if you get it from the publisher you pay alot for it.
The main difference with Pub Med and others is, its a site for sharing research and scientific interests. It has interests groups etc, for example I am a member of the yeast group amongst others
. I think your supposed to have published to be a member of the site, I joined and uploaded some non published stuff I have done. I was then excepted as a group member. The public can also use the site, but you dont get the same benefits. So in short....... Journals have a unique set of rules, made worse by the strange system of open access!!
I mainly get caught out through stupidity, or my lack of willingness to cover my a#s! Dosnt help that my inbuilt sense of fairness dosnt match alot of the rules in life
. I used to get in alot of trouble on here, mainly because I saw some things as unfair. The smart thing would of been to keep my mouth shut, but I find that really hard if I feel I am right. Slowly however, I am learning what is fair, isnt always the same as what is right! So I tend to just let alot of it go, as Kiss says the boss is always right, even if he is a muppet. I was against alot of the new rules, many still dont make much sense to me. But what they have done, is give a clear framework. So dosnt matter much what I think of them, or if they fair, all you got to do is follow them.
Anyway I have drifted again off topic
.
One day I will learn the system names of bibliographies! It boils down to what the course tutors wants, rather than an institution setting on a certain system, although alot of courses tend to follow the 'norm' for that institution. To make it a little harder...... Everything has a different way to do it, so books are done differently from other sources, even within the same system! That was the bit that caught Music manager out, put the date in the wrong place on a bibliography and its treated as if you hadnt referenced it!!! Same as the strange concept of Et al, I used to list all authors of a paper. Then I discovered the wonderful Et al, so I put the main Author then simply Et al (and others)
Job done!
The only time I dont is for books like TAOE, I kind of feel like both Authors deserve to be referenced. Same with people like Vogel and the Fischers, they are in a league of there own. Even though really Vogel simply copied alot of work down, I hadnt realised he didnt actually do many of the experiments!! Same with Braeur! A bit like Colin, he just collected others work and put it together, although some of it is his work.
Oh and my latest Academic crime?? I missed the bit of info that said double space lines, so had an entire paper marked as not being done!! All because the lines did not have double spacing like the sheet asked for!! 0 marks for a great bit of work, because I didnt pay attention. I filed that under stupidity, although strictly speaking I didnt miss the instruction, I read the details a while before I did the actual work. I then just forgot about the double line thing, its not common in my class to be asked for double spacing, but it does crop up
. Not too bothered about it, its for Inorganic Chemistry. I am taking Organic Chemistry next year and Dropping Inorganic anyway, it clashes with another subject, and I prefer Organic Chemistry.