Fantastic, Incandescent bulbs are banned.

All fluorescent bulbs dim over time, not just compact fluorescent. I've kept reef aquariums and freshwater planted aquariums and the phenomena is well known among hobbyists. Most fluorescent bulbs will typically experience ~30% fall in light output over a year and get replaced whether they burn out or not. Metal Halides (HID) also have falling output and usually get replaced annually.

The new T5 bulbs are an exception, they are supposed to last somewhat longer (or so say the ads). I don't know why that is though, and I haven't ever used them.

Pommie said:

Don't worry Gayan, halogen bulbs will work just as well.

Mike.

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Thanks mike.

transitors, you're talking about high temperature plasma. Those are just in the experimental stage. CFL and floursenct tubes are ionized gases, at low pressure, they're still plasmas.

MrAl, you seem to think a watt has a limit to it's ability to raise a given object in temperature. If the system is closed or the insulation is high enough even the smallest of wattage of energy added to the system will gradually raise the temperature with no limit. Modern insulation techniques have come a LONG way. The ONLY limit is the radiant heat loss to the outside environment.

Why do you think a 30 watt soldering iron can hit 400-500+ C? Air is a good insulator, and the heating element is small, if the insulation around a house is good enough there's no reason 30 watts couldn't get the ambient air to 400-500C. But you're talking an isolated vacuum Dewar at that point =)

Nigel Goodwin said:

Does anyone use AM any more?.

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Not much, but I'll be stay tuned in to some traditional programmes sometimes on AM those are not available on FM's where they are much concentrated on musics and entertainments mainly. Shortwaving' to BBC and all are little interesting sometimes not seriously though

In my city the biggest "rock and roll" AM radio station recently switched to reading the news that is shown on cable TV's all news station.

Sceadwian said:

MrAl, you seem to think a watt has a limit to it's ability to raise a given object in temperature. If the system is closed or the insulation is high enough even the smallest of wattage of energy added to the system will gradually raise the temperature with no limit. Modern insulation techniques have come a LONG way. The ONLY limit is the radiant heat loss to the outside environment.

Why do you think a 30 watt soldering iron can hit 400-500+ C? Air is a good insulator, and the heating element is small, if the insulation around a house is good enough there's no reason 30 watts couldn't get the ambient air to 400-500C. But you're talking an isolated vacuum Dewar at that point =)

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Actually, you are the one that seems to think that i think that a watt has
a limit on it's ability to raise the temperature of something. What you think
there is not correct.
As i said in other posts which i guess you didnt read, it also depends on
surface area and insulation.
What i was talking about came from cold hard fact of life, not some
experiment in a closed environment, and with average insulation, not
some super enclosed box made just to show how a watt can heat something
up inside.

Since you live in NY maybe you can try this at home too. Turn off your
heat this mid January, then turn on your soldering iron. You'll save plenty
of money, so why not? In fact, get a 30 watt soldering iron for each room
in your house so you can keep nice and warm, after all that thing can
get pretty hot with all that air around it right? (hee hee)

MrAl said:

What i was talking about came from cold hard fact of life, not some
experiment in a closed environment, and with average insulation, not
some super enclosed box made just to show how a watt can heat something
up inside.

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But you obviously don't have 'standard' insulation, or your heating would work properly.

audioguru said:

My new furnace burns inexpensive narural gas and is 96% efficient. It uses a plastic pipe to feed its exhaust outside. Its exhaust is slightly warm moist air.

The sound of the air blowing is much louder than my old furnace. I'll call the service dept to see if they can turn down the speed of the blower. It is a variable speed DC motor.

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If your furnace is the 96% or higher dual stage type, a louder air blower noise is normal. There's a second combustion stage and blower unit in them. They are noisy buggers and from a few furnace installers that I have talked with, they recommend a furnace efficiency of around 90%+ instead of the very high units as you have. Apparently there's less to go wrong, they operate quieter, and initial cost is somewhat lower meaning quicker return on investment. Stay warm and wear earmuffs.

I got the high efficiency furnace and a high efficiency air conditioner because the manufacturer is giving a good rebate and my government is also giving a good rebate. The rebates end soon and my old equipment was 29 years old and no longer safe. There have been cases of carbon monoxide poisoning on my street from old furnaces.

My daughter had an old furnace like mine that broke. Parts are no longer available so we made a special deal for two furnaces from a contractor for a super good deal.

They have a furnace that is better than mine. 98% efficient.

There is a down side to many of the high efficiency furnaces that most people never tell you about. Realistic maintenance costs.

A friend of mine has one and so do several of his neighbors and friends as well. I was over visiting one day during a neighborhood get together and us guys got onto the subject of their high efficiency furnaces.
As typical (same as here in the forums) the bragging point of who's was most efficient and who spent the least amount of money on fuel came up.
Well sure enough they all saved around 20% or better on fuel bills since they got them but as a less than pleased set of wives pointed out the maintenance costs each year more than offset the savings.

Sure they all saved around $150 - $250 in fuel a year but not one could say that they didn't spend at least double that on regular maintenance once the two year dealer service contracts had expired!

My grandparents have one too and unless I or their nephew do the yearly maintenance on it what they save in fuel costs would not offset what the local service people would charge for the same work.

Not all high efficiency furnaces are that way but the more people who I talk to that do have them, and are honest about the true annual costs involved, I am unfortunately finding out that far too many are.

A little fan in my son's high efficiency furnace fell to pieces. One furnace repairman wanted $900.00 to replace it and another wanted $500.00. My son saw a sign on a truck on his street and a furnace repairman lived closeby. He did it for only $100.00 including the part and his labour.

My furnace and air conditioner have a 10 years parts and labour warranty. The heat exchanger of the furnace has a lifetime guarantee.

My furnace and air conditioner have a 10 years parts and labor warranty.

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My step dads heat pump system had a ten year all parts and labor warranty also. Unfortunately the warranty only applies to the original owner of the home who had gotten it put in about 1 year before they had sold the place to my mom and him.

The control valve that works when the system is in heat mode went bad about 6 months after they bought the place and prevents it from working in heat mode. To get it fixed is about $1500.
So basically they now have a $5000 central air system with less capacity and efficiency than a typical $2500 air conditioning only system.

Many life time warranties on home appliances and auto parts have similar clauses as well.

They've probably done the math and determined how often the average device changes owndership and offer the lifetime or extended warranties as a hedged bet.

Nigel Goodwin said:

But you obviously don't have 'standard' insulation, or your heating would work properly.

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Hi Nigel,


Ok then, we'll chalk it up to bad insulation then.

Well, I suggest that everyone gets a reverse cycle air con unit. You get 2.5kW of heat for 1kW of electricity. Unless you get fuel for cheap then it is the most efficient way to heat your home.

I find it incredible that I'm impressed with a 30% reduction on light bulbs but people are ridiculing me on my 250% heat pump! I thought this was a done deal, it just works and works very efficiently.

Mike.

You only get 2.5kw of heat out per KW input when the ambient temperature is above a certain limit though don't you ?

Ok if you're living in a milder climate but less efficient in the cooler climates.

It still gives you more heat out than power in under most conditions though.

I heat my home with inexpensive natural gas that simply comes out of the ground.
My home is well-insulated and I sealed all the air-leaks. One week ago I got a new furnace (and air-conditioner) that is 96% efficient. It doesn't use a chimney. Instead it has a plastic pipe that has slightly warmed humid air as exhaust. It uses outside air for combustion.

audioguru said:

I heat my home with inexpensive natural gas that simply comes out of the ground.
My home is well-insulated and I sealed all the air-leaks. One week ago I got a new furnace (and air-conditioner) that is 96% efficient. It doesn't use a chimney. Instead it has a plastic pipe that has slightly warmed humid air as exhaust. It uses outside air for combustion.

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I had a new combi-boiler a couple of years ago, no idea what it's supposed efficiency rating is, but the exhaust and inlet pipes are concentric. The exhaust goes out the middle, and the incoming cold air comes down the outside. This keeps the outside of the pipe totally cool, as it's only got incoming air touching it.

My natural gas fireplace also has concentric pipes. It is completely sealed so that no cold outside air comes into my home. Its tiny pilot flame heats the room pretty well.
when it has a big visible flame then it quickly gets too hot.

audioguru said:

My natural gas fireplace also has concentric pipes. It is completely sealed so that no cold outside air comes into my home. Its tiny pilot flame heats the room pretty well.

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No pilot light on my boiler, it's got electronic ignition.