fisher-Paykel motor controller

Drain Pump nd Triac

bryan1 said:

Hi Steve,
I pulled the board off and now I'm in the process of comparing the washing machine board(B1) against this other board I have(B2) and yes the BT136 triac has a short between the terminals where as the one on the other board doesn't. Now right behind the triac is a 331 smd resistor the one B1 measure 91.6 Ω and on B2 99.1 Ω.
The water pump is completely toast with the coil totally burnt out.
EDIT: Ok the micro is a TMS370C042 and the board code is 426119E. Now as this machine was rebuilt using good parts one could say it a bit of a hybrid and with another pump, the BT136 and fuse replaced hopefully that is all that will be needed to get this machine fixed. I did look at that link to the instrubales and downloaded the service manuals as I think I might need to reprogram in the parameters again once I get it going.

Click to expand...

Hi Bryan,
The 331 SM resistor should, of course, have a resistance of 330 Ohms. Hopefully a new pump, triac, and fuse is all that you require to get the machine working again. I suspect that your machine will be a Phase 4 at the latest, in which case, the pump is not required in order for the 15 Volt power supply to operate.

Stevef99

Hi Steve,
Ok found the model No. GW708U, silly me should of looked for that label on the back of the machine earlier....

Regards Bryan

Edit Ok thats the model No. on the back of the machine but looking in the service manual PDF it is shown as the PHASE5 (late) GW model. also in that PDF the model number does show as a phase 4 too.... But as I said before the machine was builtup out of the best parts from several machines and it has worked now for over 5 years without a hitch until now.

F & P Phase 4 ~ Series 8 motor controller

bryan1 said:

Hi Steve,
Ok found the model No. GW708U, silly me should of looked for that label on the back of the machine earlier....

Regards Bryan

Hi Bryan,

According to the info that I have ~ a GW708 is a Phase 4 (manufactured 1996- 1998) (same as mine) and has a Series 8 motor controller. In that case, the electronics should power-up with the faulty triac removed, and the faulty drain pump disconnected. If not, you may have other parts that have become defective, but probably nothing too serious. You should check that the 15 Volt supply is operational. If the triac went short circuit, it may have damaged the opto-coupler (TLP 3063). The opto-coupler is fed from the 15 Volt supply. (15 Volts on Pin 1 of the opto-coupler).
Because my original PCB was beyond repair, (faulty micro-processor) I bought a second hand PCB that did not operate. I had to replace the triac and the opto-coupler. (both damaged presumably by a faulty drain pump).
Keep in touch !

Steve

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F & p

rumpfy said:

Guys,
The FP I have is a GW702. In my shed is a controller for an earlier model FP washer and this uses IGBT's mounted on an aluminium chassis. From the discussions there are obviously, many variants in the controller.
We also have a newer GW712



Thanks again to rumpfy for posting.
The info that I have indicates that your GW712 is definitely a Phase 6 machine, but I cannot find any reference to a GW702.
From your description, the PCB from the Series 5 and 6 sounds like a pretty weird design. The earlier PCB for Phases 1 - 4 is significantly more traditional.

Stevef99

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Steve is obviously a full bottle on this stuff.
Our GW712 was new in 2006.
What I thought was GW702 was in fact GW709.
Sorry for the confusion.
Interesting discussion all the same. I've just turned 70 and am an electrical engineer. First job was at Philips. My first boss there had a saying that; "when an engineer makes up his mind, then shoot him so he wont change it"
Sounds like the mob at FP have too many engineers changing their mind and they needed a boss that could drive some stability in the design.
My judgement about the method of controlling the water pump would have been better to have a triac driving the thing from the AC power mains using an opto coupler from the TMS. All your comments seem to say that was the way they used to do it. Only the good lord would know why the changed.
I'll sign off now. Thanks to you all for the chat.
rumpfy in OZ.

F & P Model Numbers

rumpfy said:

Steve is obviously a full bottle on this stuff.
Our GW712 was new in 2006.
What I thought was GW702 was in fact GW709.
Sorry for the confusion.
My judgement about the method of controlling the water pump would have been better to have a triac driving the thing from the AC power mains using an opto coupler from the TMS. All your comments seem to say that was the way they used to do it. Only the good lord would know why the changed.
rumpfy in OZ.

Click to expand...

Thanks again to rumpfy for posting.
The cross-reference info from F & P Model # to “Phase” of design is readily available from the internet. Rumpfy’s washing machines are:-
GW709 ~ Phase 5, (AKA Series 9 and 10),
GW712 ~ Phase 6, (AKA Series 11).
I now have additional info that states that ONLY the Phase 5 (Series 9 & 10) machines incorporated the design whereby the drain pump was an integral part of the 15 Volt regulated power supply circuit.

See two paragraphs below from the F & P manual:-
“If the pump has blocked/ jammed and the thermal overload has gone open circuit, just remove the blockage from the pump. The module and the pump should still be okay. If the pump windings are water damaged, the pump will quickly overheat and cut off again. The pump must be replaced in this case. (If the pump shorted to earth, it is possible that the module could short out on series 9 and 10 machines). Series 11 should not have this problem as the pump is not powered through the motor controller as with the phase 5 products. Series 11 phase 6 machines do not utilise the pump to dump energy. This change also reduces the potential for failure.
It is important to check the pump windings thoroughly for water damage. It is possible for the resistance of a water-damaged pump to be normal, however the inductance of the pump can change causing it to overheat and cut out. There are new fault codes in the system that now relate to the pump circuit and it’s function”.
The above two paragraphs © Fisher & Paykel.

It is unusual for a manufacturer to admit that a previous design was flawed.

Stevef99

Good on you steve.
The GW 709 was inherited from a relly. He wanted to be 'involved'. The water pump burned out and I was NOT prepared to buy a new one. i dismantled it, checked the number of turns of wire, weighed the wire, and bought 100 gram from a motor rewinder. I repaired the bobbin and rewound the coil. There were probably more turns on the rewind than originally.
Subsequent to reassembly of the machine (after a couple of months), I did have trouble with the TMS shutting down the pump. I presumed the motor current was too high.
I found that during reassembly of the motor, I may have changed the normal operating position of the rotor in the frame and created a slightly too high friction force between the rotor and the water seal. Ampere measurements on the bench didnt indicate anything wrong however. Nevertheless, after the adjustment, the machine worked and to date (4months) everything is OK. I use an AVO model 8 for most of my work.
I note one of the posters is planning to buy another pump. Hope my experience is useful.

G'day guy's,
Well finally got around to changing the fuse and the triac today, set up the board on the washing machine and powered it up and got the welcome beep and the lights came on as normal. so next week I'll get a new pump and hopefully the washing machine will be fixed.

Regards Bryan

G'Day Guy's,
Well bought a new pump for $85 and fitted it this morning and on powerup no error codes showed up so first put the last load of washing and did a spin run with no problems, on doing a full load and everything seems back to normal so this ol' 7kg F&P lives to see a few more years hopefully.

Thanks for the support Steve and others and yet another appliance I've fixed around the house.

Cheers Bryan

Hi,
I have a F&P IW812. For the past two years the machine has been giving me an error code 136 at the end of the first rinse. This happens every wash cycle. Besides that it operates perfectly. My work around has been to just restart the machine and advance to rinse 2 manually and it completes the wash.

So now I've had enough. I have researched the fault code and followed the procedure for checking the wiring and rotor position sensor. I have been thorough and it all leads to the solution of replacing the motor controller. I would prefer to have a go at fixing it myself but I am an amateur. I have now removed the motor controller which is in a brown case. The circuit board has SD11 PCB 420048-G the 2 up panel 420049-G printed on it and has no obvious damage.

I am in the process of checking the circuit board as advised on the instructables website earlier in this post.

I know it's a long shot but can anyone offer some advice as to what or where the problem may be.

Thanks.

Bruce, I have such a board. Are you still interested? Peter

Hi Peter,
I still have the problem sitting on my bench, sorry about the delay in response. Whats the best way? should I send you a photo of the pcb to identify the components?

Bruce

Hi all I have only just stumbled across this thread, I have a WL80T65D with the brown motor controller PCB P7SPL. It just sits there no lights, and little groans from what appears to be the solenert beeper. It appears to be hiccupping like those Philips K9 C-TVs used to do. I have done cold tests: no shorts anywhere. Not sure of how it failed, I am coming in on the tail end. I changed the electros around the TNY266GN IC. This
usually does the trick with simpson boards...! Cheers Andy from Yeppoon.