Flip Flop toggle only works momentarily?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Taking comments above on board, here's a suggested improved debounced circuit. Switching pulse rise and fall times are both < 2uS. In simulation a 10mS train of 0.5 mS pulses at 1kHz rate represents switch bounce and gives rise to a single switching pulse.
The bjt is replaced by a FET.
 
Last edited:
The fall time can't be < 2us since R3 = 2M.
 
The fall time can't be < 2us since R3 = 2M.
The pulse is differentiated by the 10nF*150Ω. When the switch is released, the output voltage will go below ground by less than a millivolt (12V*150Ω/2Meg=900uV).
 
The pulse is differentiated by the 10nF*150Ω. When the switch is released, the output voltage will go below ground by less than a millivolt (12V*150Ω/2Meg=900uV).

Ron,
When the button is released, the time constant is 10 nF * 1M = 10 ms.

So the FF needs a Schmitt Trigger input to cope wih such a long fall time.
 
Ron,
When the button is released, the time constant is 10 nF * 1M = 10 ms.

So the FF needs a Schmitt Trigger input to cope wih such a long fall time.
The slow fall time is on the left side of the capacitor. The 150Ω resistor differentiates this slow exponential.
Another way of looking at it: The time constant is 10nF*(2Meg+150Ω). The output is 150/(2Meg+150) of the 12V exponential ramp.
Run a simulation if you can't envision it.
 
Last edited:
But the long TC is on the switch side of the dif cap. the other side is quite fast. 10nf x 150Ω.

Slow fingers.
 
Last edited:
But the long TC is on the switch side of the dif cap. the other side is quite fast. 10nf x 150Ω.

Slow fingers.
Yes, I was concentrating on the time constant & forgertting about the voltage division due to the 2 resistors.

It's an interesting point.
 
But the long TC is on the switch side of the dif cap. the other side is quite fast. 10nf x 150Ω.

Slow fingers.
When the switch closes, the time constant is 10nF*150Ω.
When the switch opens, the time constant is ≈20mS. The 150Ω resistor is part of that time constant. The resistive divider, 150/(2Meg+150), means that less than 1mV appears across the 150Ω resistor.
 
Last edited:
I agree.

However it is -1mV since the discharge current goes through the 2 M resistor then back to the capacitor via the 150Ω.
 
Thanks for explaining that, guys. I was beginning to doubt (not for the first time ) my sanity.
 
I agree.

However it is -1mV since the discharge current goes through the 2 M resistor then back to the capacitor via the 150Ω.
Yeah, I said essentially that in post #24:
The pulse is differentiated by the 10nF*150Ω. When the switch is released, the output voltage will go below ground by less than a millivolt (12V*150Ω/2Meg=900uV).
 
Thanks everyone for your posts

The circuit that alec_t initially posted works well with the decoupling cap added to it. It turns off and on with every push of the switch. I saw the second diagram is supposedly a better debounce circuit and uses a MOSFET transistor ( i think). Even though the one I have now works, would you guys suggest that one? I couldn't quite follow all of the posts to tell if it is good or not..
 
Even though the one I have now works
There were valid criticisms of my first circuit; hence the second one. But I'm a great believer in "If it ain't broke don't fix it".
 
I would use the MOSFET. Most BJTs don't have enough current gain to predictably sink 240mA when being driven from CD4000 logic, unless you use a Darlington, and then you suffer at least a volt Vce(sat).
 
Yes, I agree with Ron.

But remember that MOSFETs are static sensitive so you need to take some modest precautions when handling them.

I suggest you do a search for ESD (Electrostatic discharge) if you don't know about this issue.

Also note that, just because something works does not necessarily mean that it is satisfactory.

While working as a design engineer in a large company, I was occasionally called upon to fix design issues in circuits that had been designed by someone else.

On one occasion, I discussed it with the original designer, & his comment was "Oh, but it worked in the lab".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…