Global Warming

ronsimpson said:

Start a war!
It worked for many years.

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Wars are spectacular, but in the order of things, don't kill that many people: disease and starvation are the big killers. I would imagine despots are next: Po Pot, Sudan Hussain, Stalin... Small scale, but apparently Henry VIII, not only killed his wife's, he also wrote-off 4,000 other people. I think in the First WW more people died of flu than combat, same for the Crimean War. 5M people die from maleria each year. Wars also stimulate breeding: the baby boom of WWII for example. The other point is that war tends to kill men, but it's the women that hatch the babies.

spec said:

The latest claims for global warming range between 0.5 Deg C and 0.7 Deg C (call it 0.6 Deg C), over some not too clear period. Once again, genuine question: What is the sinificance of 0.6 Deg C. Sure, any increse in temperature makes the molicules jangle around a bit more but what else? I have read about the claimed effects of temperature increase but nothing seems to be quantified.

Also, is the signficance proportional to (delta Deg C/Deg K), or is there some other denominator. If so, anybody have any idea what it is?

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I put very little faith in claims of future effects just from a 2C temperature increase. The idea that we really understand the science to the degree we can predict what will happen has been shown to be a crock by the actual data for 30+ years.
One theory is that the tripping point to a non-recoverable (in human lifetime terms) **broken link removed** heating cycle is tied to some mean temperature decided by planet scale models. The faster the rate of rise the quicker we get to that point. If that point is 20 years we are screwed but if it's 100 years then maybe not if we solve the carbon emitting energy cycle long before that time and reduce population to something manageable.

Well put, sir!

It is tough to make predictions, especially about the future.: Yogi Berra (Similar quote from, Niels Bohr & Samuel Goldwyn)

I spend most Sunday mornings, looking after an elderly lady in her 90's, who was my mother's best friend. In many ways she is very old fashioned, perhaps victorian in her views, and perhaps a little gaga over a few things .. .. However, she made me smile recently when looking at a newspaper with a headline concerning ISIS and further down the page some concern over that nurse who came back to the UK with Ebola.

She said .. .. 'I think nature sometimes needs a little help to get it right' ... .. 'how do you mean ?' .. I said .. ..

'Well, wouldn't it help if we found someone with Ebola and got them to join ISIS ?'

A natural solution ?

S

Like the hat too!

A friend Jim, had a grandaughter, about 7: very bright. He was teaching her writing and said to her, if you want to shorten a message you could miss out the vowles in the words, so 'thanks' would be 'thnks', and so on. His grandaughter replied, wouldn't the message be even shorter if you missed out the consonants too?

**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

Report opposing the UN report. Unfortunately you have to download individual chapters for viewing.

Joe,

I was an ET in the NAV (7 years, ET1 at discharge). Orders to Adak were something that you did not, under any circumstances, want to receive. Luckily, did most of my tour in Charleston.

And thanks for the report. Working my way through it now.

Wow. These guys are something.
Second hand smoke is ok too.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute

I RON'd once at Adak on my way back to Attu from environmental leave. They were talking about moving the station from Attu to Adak, but that never happened.

I certainly wouldn't want to be on the NE Corner of the island where the loran A station was.

JoeJester said:

Tony Stewart

The class 1 and 2 CRNs are the best. There just isn't a lot of them out there yet. I don't know which class you installed, but I'm assuming its a class 1 or 2 CRN. If you look at that report, you can see some newer class CRNs being influenced by Air Conditioner Exhausts to where the readings are higher because of them. There are no notes out there on what the scientists did with each of the class with respect to homogenizing the data. They probably will have a difficult time in determining when the asphalt was built or the AC's installed, especially if it's not on government property.

Yes, the newer ones can average the daily info producing a better data then the wet bulb/dry bulb and temperature in four hour increments during the pre-1975 era.
.

Did you look at the report in the link I provided above?

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I could did find your link.

Our automated remote weather stations in 1974-75 were all "Class 1" and I do not recall seeing any remote stations in Canada other than Class 1.

BTW, These classes did not exist in 1975, as in my opinion, that was common sense, that heat sources such urban sprawl, or tree shading, or bodies of water all affect accurate sensing of nature.

Tony Stewart said:

BTW, These classes did not exist in 1975, as in my opinion, that was common sense, that heat sources such urban sprawl, or tree shading, or bodies of water all affect accurate sensing of nature.

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I agree. Unfortunately, here in the states it takes an act of Congress to look at common sense, but if that was mentioned, all those critters will be looking for Thomas Payne's book by that title.

How often does your government inspect those stations for accuracy?

We talk about the human problem, yet, we insist in banning the programs in place that would help thin the herd. Smoking, didn't that shorten one's lifespan? Heavy drinking, what? Ol' Joe died from liver cancer?

You need to encourage activities that will help. How about diving off the seattle needle into a shallow swimming pool? I hope some politico's do that.

I think we can all be responsible in reducing the carbon emissions in China. Abstaining from buying disposable goods or get them repaired. Most are from China , which requires them to spew toxic fumes to produce. If the product isn't likely to last a lifetime or even 10 yrs, I consider it disposable goods.

As drivers, car-pools ought to be encouraged, organized and subsidized, >90% of the cars that occupy 12 lanes of traffic here are 1 person per car. If Uber was made supported by govt instead of banned here, they could reduce the pollution and rush-hour (Oxymoron) congestion.

A former co-worker in Winnipeg bought the 1st Mitsubishi electric car in Canada. He told me it was his best Winter Car yet. WHich says a lot. He spent <$87 last year in electricity (@$0.10/kWh) which some people consume in gas every week. It's a great urban car and the battery life exceeds 10yrs and works at -30'C and gives instant interior heat.

spec said:

I note that the rules for ETO don't preclude this subject, so here goes:

I must admit that I don't understand the global warming subject, for example on BBC TV yesterday a guest said that the current immigrant crisis and the terrorist bombings were caused by global warming. I have asked people from various walks of life about their views and the responses span from complete indifference thru scepticism to religious zeal. I would be interested in the views of ETO members because, having an engineering bent, they represent a focused strata of society.

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Hi,

You are right, looking at it from an engineering perspective provides a lot of insight.

What i have found in human behavior is that economics has the biggest influence, especially a step change in monetary input.

If you look at an RLC circuit with an amplifier, a step input causes ringing in a circuit that is not over damped. That's similar to human behavior when their monetary input changes, especially when it goes down. There is a also certain point where the feedback gain causes oscillation. But even without oscillation, if one of the peaks is too high it causes destruction of the system because the system can only tolerate so much stress. This model works to some degree for both human behavior and global warming. Global warming because the Earth is a system and we are providing at least SOME of the input. Human behavior because various enterprises always cause a rise in prices which acts as a reduction in monetary input.

As prices rise in one country, that makes it harder for people to get things that they need, or at least allow them to be somewhat content. But as the world prices increase the people that had little to begin with now have even less, and there is a threshold that is reached where they must place blame on some system because this wasnt happening before. They could use any excuse but unfortunately religion is an easy scapegoat.

It's unfortunate that governments do not look ahead far enough to do something about this before it happens. If everything seems ok at the moment, they allow almost anything. Housing and real estate rose by a huge amount like 10 fold over the years, yet paychecks barely doubled. the government did nothing to prevent that, so now many people live in poverty. The people who were just getting by now cant get by, so they seek some sort of fix and that fix will be based on what they know already and what works. If nothing else works they may seek some violent act at one last ditch to make a difference.

I could go on but i'll take a rest now