Got some chips, but cant find programmer!

Hi all, I recently got my hand on three PIC's, they are a PIC16F917 and a PIC16F59, and a 18f24j10 smd(dont ask ). I know i could probably get to program these if u were to buy an universal programmer(not the smd i suppose), but i don't have that kind if money. And i've downloaded several programs(ponyprog, icprog) to see if these are included in their supported list, but they aren't. Does anyone know of a simple effective way i can programm these, or will they stay unprogrammed forever . Im really not a expert in programming microcontrollers, but I've seen that you can program these chips serially but they need a bootloader preprogrammed right?
I live in Portugal(Europe), if there really aren't any diy programmers which one should i buy?

Thanks all!

Check if the MicroChip ICD2 covers them?, then you could build an InchWorm (or Inchworm+) ICD2 clone - which is very reasonably priced.

It seems like i chose a pair of complicated PICs to start with..
The datasheets refer ICSP but only in the 16F91 i found a instance on ICD2.

Looking at the Inchworm+'s manual it says it supports the 16F917 but with the 16F59 it has programmer support only. So I guess i'll have to buy that, and i've seen ill have to use a breadboard to program the chips because it doesn´t have anything to fit the chips right?

I'll also have to buy a USB 2 Serial converter because my laptop doesnt have RS232.. bummer..
Does a chip require a bootloader to use inchworm+? Or can I program these virgin chips with it.

Thanks.

serj.t.s said:

It seems like i chose a pair of complicated PICs to start with..
The datasheets refer ICSP but only in the 16F91 i found a instance on ICD2.

Looking at the Inchworm+'s manual it says it supports the 16F917 but with the 16F59 it has programmer support only. So I guess i'll have to buy that, and i've seen ill have to use a breadboard to program the chips because it doesn´t have anything to fit the chips right?

Click to expand...

The ICD2 is an in-circuit programmer, you can make a simple little board (with a ZIF socket if you like) in order to program chips out of circuit.

I'll also have to buy a USB 2 Serial converter because my laptop doesnt have RS232.. bummer..

Click to expand...

The InchWorm+ has an optional extra board, the Unicorn, which makes the InchWorm+ in to a USB ICD2 (again, a MicroChip clone).

Does a chip require a bootloader to use inchworm+? Or can I program these virgin chips with it.

Click to expand...

No, the InchWorm+ (as with any other programmer) programs virgin chips.

Most of this post is opinion. By training I am a software type and in general do not much care about the processor providing it has enough horsepower and the right peripherals to get the job done.

This Microchip page has a table that list the 16F features by processor.

I would not use the PIC16F59 for learning because it lacks the In Circuit Debug capabilities. (others could care less about ICD) Use the 16F917 while you are getting you feet wet. If you want a lower pincount chip the 16F88 is a popular 18 pin chip to work with. 40 pins is overkill for many projects.

One of the nice features of MPLAB is that you can switch very quickly between am ICD2 debugger and the simulator. Each has its advantages.

The 18F series of chps have a more compiler friendly architecture and can be had with more memory. They are only slightly more expensive. What you learn with the 16F applies to the 18F so the transition is not painful. Unless you are designing a commercial product where every cent counts these is little reason to use the 16F family anymore.

Thanks, i hope I'll stay around and enjoy the forum. I got these chips because my first intention is to build a led array display, a huuuge one But still have a lot to dig threw.

Just one question aside, as you guys seem to have a great deal of experience, is programming microcontrollers of use in the professional world? I mean, could it get you a job? I'm studying electronics but its more connected to telecomunications, but i don't plan on sticking to the telecommunications part that much.

Thanks

serj.t.s said:

Thanks, i hope I'll stay around and enjoy the forum. I got these chips because my first intention is to build a led array display, a huuuge one But still have a lot to dig threw.

Click to expand...

Have fun with the array.

serj.t.s said:

Just one question aside, as you guys seem to have a great deal of experience, is programming microcontrollers of use in the professional world? I mean, could it get you a job?

Click to expand...

Very much so. You need to be a reasonably good programmer. More importantly you need to be good at understanding datasheets. If you get very LUCKY you end up working directly with a chip designer then do not expect the luxury of a datasheet . Depends on where you work.

Seriously I enjoyed doing embedded programming. Usually the project teams are smaller and more diverse then you get working on other programming jobs.

serj.t.s said:

Thanks, i hope I'll stay around and enjoy the forum. I got these chips because my first intention is to build a led array display, a huuuge one But still have a lot to dig threw.

Click to expand...

Check my tutorials, there's one for an 8x8 LED array, it would be easy to make it larger.

Just one question aside, as you guys seem to have a great deal of experience, is programming microcontrollers of use in the professional world? I mean, could it get you a job? I'm studying electronics but its more connected to telecomunications, but i don't plan on sticking to the telecommunications part that much.

Click to expand...

Yes, almost everything electronic now has a micro-controller in it, someone has to program them!

I regret not doing more microcontrollers in college, there was a module devoted to it but I decided to take something else for some silly reason.

Excuse me once again...

i wanted to know the definitions of two things:

1. bootloader : is that we have to put bootloader by ourself into the pic chip by the programmer..?

2. inchworm ICD2 : what is this ..if it is an universal PIC programmer then can i have its internal circuit diagram...

any help appreciated...

regards,

simran..

simrantogether said:

i wanted to know the definitions of two things:

1. bootloader : is that we have to put bootloader by ourself into the pic chip by the programmer..?

Click to expand...

A bootloader is a program you can load in to some PIC's which allow you to then program it from a simple serial port.

2. inchworm ICD2 : what is this ..if it is an universal PIC programmer then can i have its internal circuit diagram...

Click to expand...

Perhaps you should simply search on this forum! - all the details are on here, including the full circuit diagram. I would suggest though you buy the PCB, it's superb quality - and FAR easier than designing your own board.