Help with Colin Mitchell at Talkingelectronics.com

Seriously? WTF?
You post stuff on the internet in public access locations then get upset because some day someone else may find it and profit from it?

As far as internet goes its the same as if you posted your work on a public bill board or the surface of the moon. So dont got mad at the people who look at it and use the idea YOU displayed some place that anyone can find and see.

If you dont want others profiting from your work dont put it where they have free and full access to it from any point on the planet. Its that simple.

Even grade school kids understand the basic principals of dont put your stuff out where everyone can get to it unless you want someone to take it.

This is like listening to an exhibitionist complain about why everyone is looking at them and taking their picture as they run around in public naked. If you dont want people looking dont show it off in public.
If you dont want people taking it dont put it in a high traffic location where people who would be interested in such things tend to be at all the time.

This is just dumb and I rather hope Collin makes a fortune off of what he finds freely posted all over the pubic access internet sites!


Oh and you are not supposed to have read this, its private, so no copying or quoting anything from it. Just act like you never saw it or read it or even thought about anything I said in it.

I agree with most of what tcmtech says but in reality the law doesn't see it tlike that.

For example, copyrighted music is played on the radio and TV every single day but if you record it, keep it and redistribute it to your friends, you're committing piracy, just as Colin has pirated Mike's designs.

I'd like to see copyright laws softened to some extent but unfortunately, that's the way it is at the moment.

Well, I am sure Mike will not be wasting any money on an attorney. But there are laws. Also, a little respect do here and that is probably that is wanted.

Like Hero said, songs are on the radio all the time and they are copyrighted. Some will copy and share.

Go copy them and sell them and see what happens 'if' they find you.

For example, copyrighted music is played on the radio and TV every single day but if you record it, keep it and redistribute it to your friends, you're committing piracy, just as Colin has pirated Mike's designs.

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In piracy it all comes down to what ship you are on. If you dont want to get raided dont go on the ocean.

Out of the thousands of people that frequent this site I seriously doubt I am the only one who has music, movies, shows, and software programs archived on my computer of shared stuff from friends, family and online sources. Because what I have was collected by sharing I also share that back to anyone who wants it as well. I support it and encourage it.

If you dont want people taking your stuff dont advertise to everyone that you have it and dont put it where everyone and anyone can find it.

Go copy them and sell them and see what happens 'if' they find you.

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There are countless online forums, sites, and services that are specifically for just such activities where it is legal and encouraged and they are used by millions of people every day all over the world.

tcmtech said:

In piracy it all comes down to what ship you are on. If you dont want to get raided dont go on the ocean.

Out of the thousands of people that frequent this site I seriously doubt I am the only one who has music, movies, shows, and software programs archived on my computer of shared stuff from friends, family and online sources. Because what I have was collected by sharing I also share that back to anyone who wants it as well. I support it and encourage it.

If you dont want people taking your stuff dont advertise to everyone that you have it and dont put it where everyone and anyone can find it.

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So it's ok to steal your house because you left it in public view? It's on a street that people drive on therefore it's ok to take because you shouldn't have left it in a highly trafficked area? Sorry but I don't buy your take on things. Just because others do it and it's common doesn't make it right. Granted if you're truly concerned about your intellectual property you should mitigate your risks but I find your stance absurd. Sorry.

jimlovell777 said:

So it's ok to steal your house because you left it in public view? It's on a street that people drive on therefore it's ok to take because you shouldn't have left it in a highly trafficked area? Sorry but I don't buy your take on things. Just because others do it and it's common doesn't make it right. Granted if you're truly concerned about your intellectual property you should mitigate your risks but I find your stance absurd. Sorry.

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Sorry but you can't compare intellectual property to something physical such as a house or a car, saying they're the same is equally absurd in my opinion.

If I steal your house, you can no longer live there, if I steal your car, you can no longer drive it.

But I seal your design, you still have access to it, it's just I have a copy of it on my website.

If you manufacture something, say wheelbarrows and I seal a batch of 100 from your warehouse, you've lost the value of 100 wheelbarrows.

But if you write a program which you sell to make a profit and 100 people pirate it, you can't say you've lost the value of 100 licences. It's not that simple because you would be assuming all of those people, who pirated it, would've bought it which is certainly not true; many of them wouldn't have bought it anyway. There's also chance you might not have lost as much as you had thought; if some of those who pirated your software, might like it and encourage more honest people to buy it.

I fully admit that I've downloaded some pirate software, installed it, then deleted it because it was rubbish and thanked my lucky stars I didn't buy it, not that I could've bought it anyway: Microsoft had discontinued it, so piracy was my only option!

In my opinion, the software, film and music companies haven't done much to encourage people to pay for their material:

One of the problems is that many shops don't accept returns on CDs and DVDs in order to stop people from buying it, copying it and returning it. In practise this hasn't helped, because the dishonest people just turn to piratebay and some the honest people go there as well as they no longer have the option of returning it, if they don't like it.

Another problem is that some of the licence agreements with some pieces of software might contain clauses which the purchaser might disagree with. Often, the only way they can get a refund is to go to court as the consumer didn't have the option of seeing the agreement before buying it and the shop doesn't allow refunds.

Paying per downloads also has the same problems as above. Demo versions and allowing people to see the licence agreement before purchasing the software do help. I know there are lots of demo versons of software but I've not seem many shops which allow you to read the license before buying it.

I get your point and agree, I believe the transition to tangible goods is warranted by the following statements.

tcmtech said:

If you dont want others profiting from your work dont put it where they have free and full access to it from any point on the planet. Its that simple.

Even grade school kids understand the basic principals of dont put your stuff out where everyone can get to it unless you want someone to take it.

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There is the great debate of piracy and depriving IP owners of profit based on digital goods and how it's not really a loss. Theft is theft. I'll admit I've downloaded plenty of illegal stuff in my day and I'm not proud of it. I found many ways of justifying it until a point came when I saw my actions for what they really were. There's a line a decency which people freely cross on the auspices of freedom. Frankly I find it sad that people must lockdown whatever they don't want others to have, it's not yours and you know it, don't take it!

So it's ok to steal your house because you left it in public view? It's on a street that people drive on therefore it's ok to take because you shouldn't have left it in a highly trafficked area? Sorry but I don't buy your take on things. Just because others do it and it's common doesn't make it right. Granted if you're truly concerned about your intellectual property you should mitigate your risks but I find your stance absurd. Sorry.

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Yea people go around taking houses with the same effort that they can download or copy stuff from online. Think about using a proper comparison before declaring absurdity.

My point is and was that if you put your intellectual property online in a public access forum dont get upset when someone else finds it and copy's it for what ever reason they want.
Thats the real issue here. Illegal or not, If enforcing a rule costs far more than the losses related to not enforcing it are worth, is it really worth trying to enforce anyway?

As far as houses go, if I see your house and like it I can't physically steal it from you with a simple point and click but I sure can copy its design and blueprints and build my own or build a copy of your house and sell it to anyone else without your knowledge or consent.
Sure perhaps you could fight me in court and maybe win about my copying your house but then you could spend a fortune on lawyers and legal work doing so and maybe you would have a fair chance of winning but at what cost? You could spend your life's savings to prevent me from what?
Some minor inconvenience to me? I probibly wouldn't even bother hiring a lawyer. I would represent myself and just keep you tied up in court at your expense until you are broke purely for the spite and personal entertainment value.

Hypothetically you burned up your life's work and savings to stop me from stealing your house design and building a house like yours. Now you are broke and someone else can go and start building a copy a second time and get away with it now that you dont have the financial means to prevent it again let alone countless other times after that.

You are broke and have to sell your house to live, I may be in jail but most likely not, someone else owns your home now and the media attention from the whole mess likely has others interested in copying your house design as well.
SO, did you really win?

I generally only pirate, if the software is no longer sold, that way there's no way I'm harming anyone.

I don't buy software, unless there is a demo I like and I've been able to review the license agreement beforehand.

The only exception to this is Windows maybe, which comes preinstalled most of the time but my next machine might not even have Windows installed.

I personally make a distinction between what's immoral and illegal: I might do the odd illegal thing (pirating software which is no longer available is still illegal) every now and then but I do my best to avoid doing anything bad.

EDIT:
tcmtech,
You've raised another valid point, copyright is only for the big companies who can afford to sue, if you don't have the money, no one cares if people pirate any of your designs because you can't sue them.

For me, this was never an issue of copyright, but one of common courtesy.

I don't believe Mike K8LH was looking for any reimbursement, just a simple "Do you mind if I use some of your images and code on my website?" It wasn't like he posted his stuff in a place where there was public access; he posted it to this forum where he had *some* measure of control. That measure was the courtesy and manners which we on this forum have agreed on.

I hope, after reading some of the comments here, Mike continues to provide the very high quality help he has in the past. His work exceeds much of what some of those who have less respect have offered.

Some men believe it is alright to just take without asking; some men believe that using anger and un-uttered threats of violence, rather than reason and logic to get their point across is alright. These beliefs do not make their actions right. That is how the world is, however, we all have a choice of what we will subscribe to.

Mike,K8LH is one of the first class compact code writers in PIC world.I know the value of his designs.

This is why I'm not publishing the hex/Source files of my projects even those are basic ones.People ask & ask & ask finally mailing me with dirty words remembering my mother & father.

tcmtech said:

In piracy it all comes down to what ship you are on. If you dont want to get raided dont go on the ocean.

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You could as well have told him not to have been born.

Boncuk

Gayan Soyza said:

Mike,K8LH is one of the first class compact code writers in PIC world.I know the value of his designs.

This is why I'm not publishing the hex/Source files of my projects even those are basic ones.People ask & ask & ask finally mailing me with dirty words remembering my mother & father.

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So what is the point of publishing the 'project' at all, if you don't provide the required information then it's just a complete waste of tme. It's not a 'project', just you attempting to show how clever you are.

Nigel Goodwin said:

So what is the point of publishing the 'project' at all, if you don't provide the required information then it's just a complete waste of time. It's not a 'project', just you attempting to show how clever you are.

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I doubt anyone would finish the 'project' for author. But I'm sure some students would like that

Nigel Goodwin said:

So what is the point of publishing the 'project' at all, if you don't provide the required information then it's just a complete waste of tme. It's not a 'project', just you attempting to show how clever you are.

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That is to show off as you said.

colin55 said:

If you take the time to read the article on Talking Electronics website you will notice it says "We are not selling the program or the project. Go to Mike McLaren - Micro Application Consultants for details on these things."

The CD was updated in January and does not contain the article.
But I am glad you fossiked your way through the labyrinth of files to find the article.
I have never refused to answer any of your emails and I get hundreds each day.
You just failed to send me an email and are now behaving like a woman.
It's a pity you don't have a website or an email address that can be attached to the article.
I have had my whole site ripped off and reproduced in other languages and the kits sold without my approval. Most of the FM bugs sold in the US have been taken from my site - as can be seen by the layout of the PC boards. But I don't go around crying about it.
You will notice some of the other respondents had an intelligent approach in their answer. The web is for all and it's FREE. I get nearly 3GB of traffic each day and this cost me more than I ever get out of sellling any of the kits. The Indian traffic is the second largest. That's how the world is changing.

Colin Mitchell
Talking Electronics

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I realize this thread is old, but I'd still like to reply.

Colin, ripping off others' work is absolutely unacceptable, especially if you don't have permission. The difference between you stealing Mike's work and putting it on your site, and someone (supposedly) taking your site and ripping it off is shown in the image below--taken directly from your site:

View attachment 64856

What ever happened to Pommie's proposal?

[MODNOTE]Post edited. Personal attacks are not allowed and have been removed.[/MODNOTE]

What Mike needs to do is submit a DMCA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act) to the web host and also to Google. This is the official way to get another site to remove copy written content.

I support every member here and if you upload content with your own copyright I will help you submit these forms.. Please PM me at any time for help with copy written issues.

Thread locked.