How much do you pay for gas at the pump !

I must say that producing ethanol fuel DOES NOT produce any extra CO2.

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You're grossly mistaken about the process of refining ethanol from vegetable matter.

The carbon dioxide that gets released by burning the fuel in cars was simply caught from atmosphere when the plants that were harvested for the fuel grew.

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You're wrong. While living, most plants will continue to result in a net product of oxygen and a net deficit of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Once you burn them, they produce a lot of carbon products, and their ability to contribute any oxygen is severely compromised.

That is the same reason why wood is considered a clean and renewable source.

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That might be true where you are (I don't know), but it's not true here. Mike Holmes is regularly demonstrating better and stronger alternatives to traditional wood products.

Hank Fletcher said:

You're grossly mistaken about the process of refining ethanol from vegetable matter.

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Yes there is some release of carbon dioxide from the production, no doubt about that. But I was comparing to the 'traditional' ways of producing fuel (from crude oil), they should have about the same processing releases, what is different is the source, living plants versus trapped carbon (in oil).

Yes there is some release of carbon dioxide from the production, no doubt about that. But I was comparing to the 'traditional' ways of producing fuel (from crude oil), they should have about the same processing releases, what is different is the source, living plants versus trapped carbon (in oil).

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You need to take into consideration what's being used to produce the ethanol. In Canada, it's mostly corn. Then you need to look at what's being displaced to grow the corn. In Canada, for ther most part that's trees and wetlands. Then you need to compare the oxygen/carbon dioxide converson capabilities of corn vs. the natural ecosystem (with all its various lifeforms, including animals) displaced. Corn is almost invariably the loser when it comes to providing oxygen. So you cut down a great machine for converting carbon dioxide to oxygen most of the year (e.g. a tree) to grow a few plants that you'll drive over with a tractor after a relatively short growing season.

Oil from the ground is arguably a better solution than this bio-ethanol consideration, even though I hesitate to admit that burning any oil is a reasonable solution to anything nowadays (it's just the lesser of two evils). On the surface, vege-ethanol can be sold as a hippie-friendly solution to a problem that's been characterized as evil. Underneath the surface is the nightmare of having oil companies own your country's land, destroying your environment, and inhibiting your capabilities of providing food for nations needing assistance.

I guess there is a wild grass that grows and is common in the mid west here in the U.S. It may provide the necessary ingredients for making fuel and will be more Eco friendly on all sides. They are still trying to find a better way to break it down to start the process. Harvesting the greater part of the mid west here will be encouraging for farmers.

killivolt said:

Explain brew ?

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The oils are mostly triglycerides. A triglyceride has a backbone of glycerol (3 alcohol groups on a 3-carbon chain) and to each alcohol group a fatty acid is esterified. The triglycerides are "brewed" with alkali and methanol to give the methyl esters of the fatty acids and glycerol. The glycerol by-product is often used for making soap. Biodiesel consists of the methyl esters. John

Prices at the pump yesterday here in Adelaide

Unleaded $1.56.9 a litre
Diesel $168.9 a litre
Autogas $0.69 a litre

I think its 3.58 USD per gallon over here in Lexington, Kentucky.

in cambodia the prises are $1.22 premium $1.20 avarage $0.98 for diesel

cooking gas botle (15kg) last month $17.8 this week $36 is aspected to come down to $29 (prime minister (dictator) had some hard words and threads for the speculators in this game (2 months before election time))

price of electricity is $0,21 a Kw

avarage income is $70 a month, efectifly this is higher for a lot of people deu to coruption income but still a lot of people in the country side have considerably less

Robert-Jan

In my part of Canada (Canada is huge and the prices for gas are different across it), regular 87 octane is $1.07.2/liter today. The most expensive is 94 octane and is used by the little kids that burn out their engines and tires.
One week ago a liter costed about $1.00. Up, up, up she goes.

Here on the west coast gas is about $1.27/L in Canadian dollars. Our dollar is 0.99USD so about the same. The C$ bobbles up and down daily, but averages par with the US$ for the last few months.

Regular octane number is 87.

Diesel costs about $1.49, 20 cents higher than regular. I'd rather own a diesel in New Zealand!

Smokes $9/pack.

Electricity .07/KWH. At that price, I'll keep the incandescent light bulbs. The warmth of the bulbs is not wasted. The bulbs emit heat and therefore help the furnace to heat the house. The furnace then cyles less. No energy is wasted. If I were to switch to CFLs, I'd have to pay for more gas to run the furnace. NG energy costs the same considering the efficiency of the furnace. I might save slightly during the summer using CFLs, but we don't need as much lighting in summer,- the days are long and the nights are short.

Bob Scott said:

Here on the west coast gas is about $1.27/L in Canadian dollars. Our dollar is 0.99USD so about the same. The C$ bobbles up and down daily, but averages par with the US$ for the last few months.

Regular octane number is 87.

Diesel costs about $1.49, 20 cents higher than regular. I'd rather own a diesel in New Zealand!

Smokes $9/pack.

Electricity .07/KWH. At that price, I'll keep the incandescent light bulbs. The warmth of the bulbs is not wasted. The bulbs emit heat and therefore help the furnace to heat the house. The furnace then cyles less. No energy is wasted. If I were to switch to CFLs, I'd have to pay for more gas to run the furnace. NG energy costs the same considering the efficiency of the furnace. I might save slightly during the summer using CFLs, but we don't need as much lighting in summer,- the days are long and the nights are short.

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Out here in Langford gas just went up to CAD $1.29/l for 87 octane (~USD $4.81/Gal).

One nice thing is that the climate here in the southwest is relatively warm so the furnace doesn't come into play so much, and the whole family kinda likes it a bit chilly (compared to most other folks) so that helps too. But then again the house is old, so heating it at all is inefficient. I was raised in the north and when I was growing up the cost of heating was gas for the chainsaw and food for the wood chopper (me), but these days the insurance companies charge an insane amount for log houses with wood heat. Winters are expensive up there now.

As far as corn fuel goes, I'm of two minds. I'm for biodiesel because it can allow people to break from from the OPEC addiction. At least in Canada, we need *something* to break the price link to the American and international oil markets. We produce enough of the stuff ourselves. I don't like the idea of corn as a fuel crop--for one thing, there are crops with higher energy yields available.

One thing I don't really worry too much about is the idea of a potential food crop being wasted as fuel when it could be food: for many years you have been able to drive through farmland after harvest (in Canada and the US) and see huge mounds of food crops lying on the ground, rotting because the price was poor or the market was down or whatever. It couldn't be sold. None was used to feed anyone, because no-one would pay to ship and process it. From a business standpoint, why would they?

Ah well. Good thing I have lots of hobbies besides driving. Sad thing is that most of them are either expensive or potentially harmful to the environment or both.


Torben

[Edit: To clarify on the food thing: the above applies only to US and Canadian crops; others such as the soy fuel crop in the Amazon basin are a different ball game entirely.]

For diesel we have to pay road user charges as well which I forgot to mention. It is about 3 cents (2.4 US cents) per km for vehicles under 3500 kG which makes it about equal in costs to a petrol vehicle.
The annual car registration is higher too.

We used to have CNG (compressed natural gas) which is amost completely fased out. It was cheaper than petrol 15 years ago, and as Nigel said the boot was almost completely wasted by a very heavy gas cylinder.

I pay $ 0
I siphon mine from other vehicles. Don't park near me!

In Venezuela gasoline is twenty-something cents per liter and in Saudi Arabia or one of those Arab countries it is $.03 per liter. Three Cents!!!

audioguru said:

In Venezuela gasoline is twenty-something cents per liter and in Saudi Arabia or one of those Arab countries it is $.03 per liter. Three Cents!!!

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But, you still wouldn't live there, would you?

Mike.

what do they pay for water ? (Saudi Arabia)

They don't have water. It is a desert. They are not allowed to drink alcohol so they drink gasoline instead. Hee, hee.

.03 cents

No wonder they have so much trouble over there. It's the water. (I mean Gasoline.)

So it would appear that UK gas prices are out of step, about double what everyone else pays. About £1.10 or $2.20 per litre.

Then there are the people in huge SUVs thinking that if they get into an accident, the OTHER vehicle might have injuries but they won't get a scratch. And if the world is running out of petroleum, they are going to make sure that they get their fair share.

Bob Scott said:

So it would appear that UK gas prices are out of step, about double what everyone else pays. About £1.10 or $2.20 per litre.

Then there are the people in huge SUVs thinking that if they get into an accident, the OTHER vehicle might have injuries but they won't get a scratch. And if the world is running out of petroleum, they are going to make sure that they get their fair share.

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That's why I figured that the wear and tear on my vehicle including gas price per gal. Would effect my home purchase not the other way around (my wife is 1 mile from work + I am 1 mile from mine. If you figure the speed at which a car looses value versus a home I can't see it any other way.

(Value of a car + deprecation) or home value and it's deprecation. Basically I'll pay more for a home that is nearby my work. Rather than less and farther away.