IR Light Source

Is it possible to buy/make an IR light source (880 nm) that is brighter than a well lit room. This well lit room would be lit by several Fluorescent Bulbs.

I want this source to be several times brighter than the visible light on a Digi cam or a camera phone. I think the Fluorescent Bulbs are about 2000 lumens. I have played around with several High Power IR LEDS with light emissions up to 60 mW/sr, but all of them have problems competing with the brightness of a well lit room.

Is this possible at all?

To recap, IR light source, possibly spotlight 5-10 times brighter than the Fluorescent bulbs "long tubes" in a room, to be seen on a camera.

Thanks

A room several times brighter than a normal lit room would be too bright to see with visible light and could damage your eyes. The only difference with infrared, is you wouldn't physically react to the IR light, and even more damage could occur- just because you can't see IR light, doesn't mean it won't damage your eyes (remember that an IR laser can burn out your retina if you look into it, even if you can't see it to react).

I don't think it's a good idea.

My suggestion is to use an bandpass IR filter on the camera centered narrowly around the IR wavelength you wish to see and hopefully the flurorescent lights won't be emitting too much of the same infrared wavelengths, but I would not try to increase the output on IR lights. Or if this isn't enough, maybe put visible light filters on the lights in combination with IR filers on the phone.

steve83 said:

Is it possible to buy/make an IR light source (880 nm) that is brighter than a well lit room. This well lit room would be lit by several Fluorescent Bulbs.

I want this source to be several times brighter than the visible light on a Digi cam or a camera phone. I think the Fluorescent Bulbs are about 2000 lumens. I have played around with several High Power IR LEDS with light emissions up to 60 mW/sr, but all of them have problems competing with the brightness of a well lit room.

Is this possible at all?

To recap, IR light source, possibly spotlight 5-10 times brighter than the Fluorescent bulbs "long tubes" in a room, to be seen on a camera.

Thanks

Click to expand...

what is ur purpose? . if want to take an infrared pic of the room , then IR filter would be the option

Well I basically want to build an extremly bright IR LightSource or IR Spotlight. These are usually used for Nightvision applications, and are all used at night or low light conditions. I want build one for that is extremly effective in daytime/well lit conditions for various projects and applications.

Also a distance of 10 feet would be ideal

Main thing is that i want to know if it is possible. Not an illuminator, but a spotlight of sorts where the light is more focused rather than spread out.

mind the dangers as 'dknguyen' explained .
at first thought, comes is a IR laser+optical divergence lens(concave lens assembly or something like that) Or a high rated incandescent lamp with IR filter

Many cameras (and all low light cameras in particular) are able to see both near IR and visible light...so making an IR spotlight for daytime use is pointless, inefficient, and potentially hazardous.

The only reason you might make an IR spotlight is if you had a far IR camera (that can only see IR, not visible light) for night time use but also needed to add daytime operation. In this case you would only build an daytime IR spotlight if it was cheaper than just buying a second regular visible light camera.

In your case:
-one camera can see both visible and IR light
-a weak IR spotlight can be used for night-time
-sunlight can be used for daytime
-since the camera can see both types of light, it will work both day and night

All your requirements are already met right there, but then you want to make it much more complicated by adding an very powerful IR spotlight which will essentially do nothing but destroy retinas and illuminate an object in broad day light (remember, the camera can see both IR and visible light). Your wanting to add a day time IR spotlight is analogous to illuminating an object with a spotlight in broad daylight.

Therefore, all that is needed is a weak IR spotlight for night time use- no need to overpower sunlight. Natural light can be used in the daytime instead since the same camera can see both. Simple, safe, and effective.

Also remember that ALL IR lasers are class IIIb no matter how weak they are since human reflexes will not protect you. Not a good idea to focus IR light unless you are in a confined lab environment with barriers between yourself and the light.

I agree, it is pointless to use an IR light to light up an area in broad daylight. I do not have any intention on 'Illuminating' an Object or an area, nor do i wish to blind people. I also have no intention of taking pictures of a well IR lit object.

Yes, these explanations are very vague and seem to be contradict the reason for an IR Light source. However, whithout being too vague, I want to know if it is possible to create an IR spotlight that when shone on an object, this object will appear brighter than the non IR lit objects in a cameras LCD.

I dont want to take IR pictures, and im not saying using a IR Laser. I'm leaning towards an Array 60-90 leds Highpower. Is it possible to create such an array or spotlight using an array that is can be several times brighter (when looking at a cameras LCD) than the typical Fluorescent bulb.

I have done several experiments with several High Power / Low power IR leds of various angular projections and what not. And before I move to larger scale devices that require ten's of expensive parts, i want to know, in theory if it is possible.

Hopefully this expalins things abit better

You can consruct a simple bandpass filter for infra-red by using 2 pieces of UNexposed but developed COLOUR film. The normal (visible) light can't pass thru but IR can. Or try some of the purpose built IR pass filters which do work better but at a cost$$$. Also check to make sure the camera doesn't have an IR blocking filter, a lot of cams do.

In case you haven't realized it yet, doing this:

I agree, it is pointless to use an IR light to light up an area in broad daylight. I do not have any intention on 'Illuminating' an Object or an area...

Click to expand...

Is the exact same thing as doing this:

I want to know if it is possible to create an IR spotlight that when shone on an object, this object will appear brighter than the non IR lit objects in a cameras LCD.

Click to expand...

You say you don't want to light up something in broad daylight, but then you say you want to make something appear brighter when shining a spotlight on them regardless of day/night. It's the SAME thing. All the same dangers and uselessness still apply. Making an area/object brighter is the definition of illuminating an area. Same thing- don't fool yourself into thinking they are not.

Since they are the same thing, let's go by the hazards again. Imagine if you were trying to do this with regular light. You can probably imagine how bright this light would have to be to make the objects in spotlight much brighter than the surrounding objects. It will be bright enough to damage vision whether that is your intention or not.

Now let's go by what it will do, and what it won't:
The area engufled by a spotlight is too large to "paint" select objects. It will paint ALL the objects in the beam and the beam intensity will GRADUALLY decrease as you get farther from the beam's center, so you won't be able to differentiate. YOu need a laser, but an infrared laser is a no-no.

If you are imagining something similar to have a UV spotlight selectively lighting up every white piece of clothing in the dark with sharply defined boarders between the white clothing and everything else- this won't happen with an IR light (this works on a different principle). If you are using a single IR wavelength, it will do something similar to shining a monochrome light on something- a red light will make red objects appear much more red (brighter) than a blue object BUT only in the absence of white light. If you add in whtie light (like sunlight) everything looks pretty much the same with or without the red light (this also goes for the UV illuminating white clothing). And the colour of the light must be tuned to the colour of the object.

What are you trying to do exactly? It sounds like whatever you are trying to do, you are going about it the wrong way.

Actually, I think I know what this is all about, kind of sick and pervert...

About a year ago, I remember reading about somebody modifing a camcorder to take X-ray pictures. It wasn't X-rays like the doctors use (no bones or anything under the skin), but what was under people's clothing. It seems some fabrics pass infrared light, and light colored stuff (white skin, bra, panties...) reflect infrared. The modification if I remember, was to simply remove the filter from the ccd, and set the cam for night shot mode.

I don't know a whole lot about photography, but couldn't avoid learning a few advance techniques. My father, and my grandfather both were into it heavy, I ended up inhereting boxes of equipment and several 35mm cameras (old manuel types). I have other interests, and besides film is dead. I get great photos on my digital camera, know right away if I got a good shot, and can fix it up, crop it, resize or whatever.

Point is, you don't need an IR source in daylight, just the right filter and exposure. If your cheap ass camera has no manuel settings for exposure, then I can't imagine what kinds of pictures you hope to take, except as mentioned above... PERVERT PICTURES!

So basically, even if pervert pictures are the goal, an IR spotlight is the wrong way to go about it (also not quite the most discrete way). A filter is all that is needed, like Harvey 242 said.

Again, what is it you are trying to do?

haha, i have read about that 'x-ray camera', but no this isn't for that. Again, I dont want to take pictures. There are a few non-photographic applications I am currently doing research for and I cant get into tomany specifics, so and this kind of research hasn't really been performed yet from what I can find. I wanted to just find out if it is plausable to have an IR spotlight that can perform well in a well lit environment with a 10' range.


Thanks for all the input though!

Steve

I have to agree with the others on this, if you use IR at the level you are asking around people or animals, you will do serious damage (day or night). Our eyes don't respond or adjust to IR. Ever notice the dark sunglasses blind people wear outside? They aren't just trying to be 'hip' or 'cool'...

Anyway, have you search the web for IR illuminators? There are tons of links, some DIY many commercial. I once saw a PCB pattern I wanted to use for something else, but couldn't find it again. The board was a hexagon with 36 LEDS, thought it would be a good layout for an RGB fader project I'm working on. I saw a glass filter, fits on one of those halogen spotlights, $50.00. Not sure how much IR the bulbs produce, but figure there is plenty of heat. There are plenty of LED kits out there too.

Doubt you'll give enough detail to be of any help or insight, but would strongly advise some sort of eye protection, non replaciable equipment, take care of it. You'll miss seeing if you mess up, and you won't know it until it's too late.