JAL v2 released

Hello,

I too, see both sides, and I think much more clearly after discourse. I too, do not wish to offend, but rather, to learn.

I don't know if it is apparent from my post, but my opinion has shifted toward that of PapaBravo. I tried out this tool, and discovered it is not for me, but when I go back and re-read the original post, each time I re-read, I start to feel like it isn't appropriate here. I'm waiting to see if the OP comes back at all, or just spammed us. I kind of doubt he will return, but only time will tell. It would help, I think, if some others tried the thing out, and posted their findings.

There is another poster on this board, and others, who keeps flogging his book. At first the post was helpful, but after reading it fifteen times, it becomes tiring.

Yes, a sub-forum for buy and sell, and new product listings etc., might be useful, but I'm sure it would become a nightmare to moderate. There are tons of net sites which do this, and really, this forum is so good in terms of the educational values, it would really hurt to see it become spam central, or way too much to look after. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I have a lot more understanding now, as to why the objection was so strong.

As for the 'do my homework' crowd, and the 'please send me info to my private mailbox, I don't want this to help anyone else' crew, they seem to be the ones who are most demanding, and offensive. I think this forum has developed good methods of dealing with them.

In short, this place is a really valuable resource, and I can understand those who wish to keep it so. If they object, and I don't understand their reasoning, I can question, and get a response. I have learned a lot through argument, and those who are around (regular posters on this forum) can help this learning by arguing. I have great respect for them, no matter how their opinion differs from my own. On the other hand, those who come here and flash post, never to return, lose my respect.

Peace, out
Robert

BeeBop:

Yea, PapaBravo was on it.. I jumped in as I just looked at JAL a few days ago. Also, so ya know, I put a "hehe" on the "forsale forum" part, it was a joke. Trust me I would load that forum (ok my wife will) faster than my wife shops.

I looked at JAL.. It was not bad (stand alone), but not the answer to anything I had. This Proton BASIC PRO I think (my ad in 4 words, and I do not own it; paste their webpate here) will be the next main high-level compiler I will get. But that is $250 later and I have burned up my fathers day gift card for this year.

I fell back to MPLABs stuff and project done.

And it was version 0450 of JAL, he was talking V2.0 and "I went" maybe they fixed things? So it was worth a look. He said re-written (or the ad did), so I went for it again. And I did not look at that program yet just downloaded it. But I see by your post, I will not have to as you did what I would have.

Anyway.. You are right. This is a GREAT forum. I have hit many. And even if I do not get an answer (directly) to a problem, it is right way and I seem to figure it out on my own on those.

There are a lot of good people here. We can name the names, I would be in fear I would leave one off... There are the ones that help me, and the others that I read and learn from. We have a good thing here for sure.

My hats is off to all.

I'd like to commend BeeBop and mramos1 for digging into JAL 2.0 and posting their well reasoned and well written contributions. That is where the real information content is.

Well done gentlemen. Bravo!

Today morning i was just going to dig the features of the JAL , ...... before reading BeeBop's post.. that's a good work Bee

I wonder if the OP is even watching this forum, and willing to address any issues?

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I'm waiting to see if the OP comes back at all

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I can assure you, that I have been watching this thread since it was created. It seems like this topic has turned into Off-topic. Would you like to talk about "Announcening new, Important Free software tools" in ****-Chat section?

PS: Don't think that OPs are not watching just because they do not reply. It's is a pain in the ... to even read such a long thread

Something new and free? Good! Welcome be it!

I really think the forums are perfect the way they are. I was kidding on adding another group. It would just fill up and a few would probably look on occasion.

You think this is a hard thing to watch. I am the administrator for a international internet company.. I can totally relate.. hehe.. Glad I do not work for AOL..

I will post my findings later on the "basic compilers and" the "free compilers" I just looked at. I spent about 3 weeks going through a number of them. For me, I wanted simple and cheap.. I wound up empty handed. But MPLABs was a joy to use. Unfortunatly, I still had to write the code

I thought I was already thrown out this forum, because I couldn't log in, nor did I get a new password, until just now.

As this a technical forum I'll limit myself to technical opinions and facts.
- I'm not the author of JAL.
- JAL and included products are absolutely not commercial, nor they will be in the future. Most are full open source under freeBSD license, others are plain freeware. At least half of the beta team members is known at thé PIC list for his genereous offering of free information and programs.
- From the 10 not-C-compilers for PICs, I've seen the last 5 years, I find JAL simply the best. JAL is very good and probably will get a lot more functionality in the future.
- Amateurs in general don't have an ICD, so the products they create will seldom support ICD.
- The simulator (that's written by me 4 years ago), should have been replaced by a far better one (uDev), but the author couldn't get it ready in time.
- Orginally the new compiler supported the C-stylish comment, but it was deliberatly skipped, to leave JAL the very simple language rginally defined by Wouter van Ooijen.

And now for the future, this might be better ?
"best bootloader + JAL + ... = UPD",
see: **broken link removed**

First off,
Thanks PapaBravo, for the bravo, and Akg, for the compliment. I have downloaded JAL in the past, but just never really tried it out. The challenge presented gave me the push to do so - it's all good.

Jay, I think we don't need a new forum, but how about a thread in the Tech section, comparing development tools, both free and commercial?

I wanted to start with "look what the wind blew in..." <grin>

Aap, (Stef) I can see why you would think that; just this morning I caught the post on SparkFun, and so followed the link to the forum. The huge 'press release' brought you guys more trouble than this board gave you, no? Sorry to hear that, but I guess there was a lesson in it.

Now, returning here to answer the questions does, for me, at least, give your original post some validity. I don't think you need to be as concise as you are with the two line clip, but one pointer to the info would have done very well. The whole reason I doubted the ongoing status of the package was your original post, and specifically, the epic convention - lists of names. Even your use of the word 'author' gives me pause; it suggests that the idea has no base in the current body of knowledge, which it in fact, does. However, this is semantics, and I'll not say more, except, thanks for the re-assurance that the product will remain free.

I thought the beta team was more than two members? This suggests it is only two:

At least half of the beta team members is known at thé PIC list for his genereous offering

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Perhaps you are right, out of non C compilers, JAL may well be the best. I did like the UI for the most part, and loved the way the simulator looked, and what it promised, thus my disappointment when I couldn't use it. It may have been advantageous to leave it out, or just include a stub.

Amateurs in general don't have an ICD

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Be advised that outfits like Olimex, et al. are changing this. There is also an increasing number of DIY clones being developed. But that is beside the point. I'm not sure about this, but I don't think it would be too hard to come up with a plug in which would allow JAL's use from inside MP Lab. In a way, it seems like you guys are trying to re-invent this environment. Now MP Lab is not perfect, however it is really well developed, and I don't think anyone can compete. Some people (myself included) resent anything which forces a dependence on their products.

Orginally the new compiler supported the C-stylish comment

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Perhaps this could be made an option. Just this one point could perhaps increase your user base. I already have the C style, and ; for assembly, and ' for VB (I don't use basic on micros,) do I want to remember another? I might, but then again...

Anyway, I think you could post news on a new release here, provided you keep it short. What do others think?

Regards,
Robert

This thread got interesting at exactly the point that BeeBob and mramos1 wrote their respective reviews. Had the original post contained the link, and the invitation to check it out and offer user feedback, then the post would have been well within the letter and the spirit of this forum. I would like to hear from another entusiastic user to see if there are answers or explanations to the points raised by those two gentlemen.

aap:

I do not have a ICD, but I have programmed PIC and AVR (a lot more AVR) chips since the early 90's. I can tell you, that a simulator really would not help "me" a lot. And I plan on an ICD2 (clone) soon. But since I can burn chips, I get by.

Far as best non-C compiler, there are many basic compilers out their. JAL has one advantage, it is free. Proton and MikroBASIC will let you generate so many bytes/words of code for free (I will be looking at Mikrobasic this weekend). They have a solution for many microcontrollers. I can tell you, if not for the price, Proton is the best I have seen.

JAL0450 did not come close to these other than being free (which is something I like).

I will make a point to look at 2.0 this weekend. As Beebop said, tie it into MPLABS, that is a great idea.

I looked at JAL and agree with Beebop.

I saw 12F, but I was looking for 508/509 code to play with it. So I read the manual and looked at the sample programs. But I did not use it. For free, it is not a bad option.

I found a Mikrobasic (from a link Nigel sent to someone for something else, I think it was for an into to PIC).

Some of the trials compilers (Proton, MikroBASIC, etc) give MUCH more power and ease of use, just they limit you to so many lines of code or the hex file size.

I did like the Mikrobasic though. It said it will do 2K of code in the trial (that is very fair unless it links in some big library into it like Microbasic/Mbasic).
They also had a PICdsp, AVR and other versions. So one language for many chip familys.

I will see if it is a token based, macro based or writes to ASM this weekend.

Help on 18f452

Hii people I am new and I am willing to help in this forum

I am trying to use Jal v2 with a pic 18f452 but I am not finding the include file where the defs and things like that are.

I am doing my project for the last year of my course and I will appriciate if someone who had compiled any programs will zip me his jal folder (libraries, include files and compiler..everything needed)( settled up for 18f452) so that I can work from his setup because I cant arrive to my answer..

My email is pipster506@hotmail.com and would appriciate

Help me plz

Philip Malta

Wow, this is an old thread. Not sure of the JAL status and the 18F chips.

Maybe look at the swordfish compiler.

According to the sourceforge page there has been no activity since Feb 10, 2005. The platform independent current version is 0.4.62. The windows binary is version 0.4.60 from April 2004. None of the 18 series PIC processors is on the list so I guess you are SOL. I know it's supposed to be open source, but this looks more like dead source to me.