Laptop interface

Hi
I have decided on beginning my Microcontroller projects using PIC 16F876. I wanted some help regarding the interface between the microcontroller and the laptop. So following are my queries:

1) I have a laptop with Windows Vista home edition. Will this affect in any way for installing the PIC programmer?

2) My laptop has the following ports for interfacing:
USB 2.0 and 4-pin IEEE 1394 (firewire).
How do I use RS-232 serial connection for my projects using the above ports?

3) Is it recommended for a beginner to use a USB interface? (I read somewhere that for using USB interface, my microcontroller should support USB, I am not sure what that meant. Should configuring the microcontroller for USB connection not be enough?)

Thanks

You obviously like to make it hard for yourself!.

Laptops aren't good for PIC programming, and Vista isn't good for lots of stuff!.

For a programmer I suggest you try either the Junebug, or the InchWorm+ - both of which are native USB programmers - I can't comment on the software working under Vista though.

Nigel Goodwin said:

For a programmer I suggest you try either the Junebug, or the InchWorm+ - both of which are native USB programmers - I can't comment on the software working under Vista though.

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Junebug is a PICkit2 programmer clone with a bonus onboard 18F1320 tutor. Uses USB for data and power.

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Inchworm+ is a ICD2 programmer clone, but serial instead of USB so it's somewhat slower (still faster than other serial programmers I've used). Add a Unicorn board to get USB connection and faster speed. Dipmicro has them as well.

If you get the Inchworm+ without a Unicorn you'll need a good USB to serial converter. Most work fine. Some don't. And a good one is half the price of the Unicorn, so why not just get it and go USB. Much easier to live with. USB can power both the Inchworm+ (and Unicorn) and your target board too, as long as it doesn't eat too much power. Serial can't. With just an Inchworm+ you need to supply power to the Inchworm+.

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Inchworm+ kit - Dipmicro

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You won't go wrong buying either one. They're good, solid products. I own one of each and am very happy with them. Both work perfect.

Nigel's right. There is a possibility that Vista may give you some problems. It's quite a mess. Hopefully not though. Upgrade to Windows XP if possible.

Yes, I agree, Vista isn't good for many things. I was hoping to get a positive response. Anyways, I was actually looking for programming and interfacing techniques that will be compatible for the circuits I am trying to build from scratch and not the kit.

irisd said:

I was actually looking for programming and interfacing techniques that will be compatible for the circuits I am trying to build from scratch and not the kit.

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Ah, you want to build your own programmer? Or is it that you maybe think the Junebug/Inchworm+ won't program other pics? They will. That's what they're made for - programming PICs on your target boards or on a breadboard.

I have a kit 150 from kitsrus.com and I use a laptop with Vista. I have not had any problems programming 16F series pics. It takes less than ten seconds to load a 4K program onto a pic. The only downside I can think of with the kit150 is that it requires you to buy a wall wart to power the programmer.

superbrew said:

I have a kit 150 from kitsrus.com and I use a laptop with Vista. I have not had any problems programming 16F series pics. It takes less than ten seconds to load a 4K program onto a pic. The only downside I can think of with the kit150 is that it requires you to buy a wall wart to power the programmer.

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I have a K150 too. I finally tossed that hunk o' junk in the corner and bought a proper programmer. The K series programmers have the most absolutely miserable, pathetic support these days (used to be pretty good). And they're horribly slow.

But if it's working for the PICs you're using and you're happy with it then it's bearable. You'll find that lots of the new PICs are not supported by the K series and most likely never will be, what with all the bickering over at DIY. You will definitely have to pay for future firmware upgrades for the K series programmers, if any ever come.

So anyway, get yourself a USB to serial converter that will work with Vista. That gives your lappy a serial port and you're in business. It's possible you may have to test and return a couple till you find one that actually works as advertised, especially with Vista.

I have a JuneBug which I program using Vista AND a laptop.

Haven't had any problems so far.

Mark

UTMonkey said:

I have a JuneBug which I program using Vista AND a laptop.

Haven't had any problems so far.

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There ya go.

Get the PICkit2 or Junebug and MPLAB and you will be just fine. Desktops are archaic. Raise your hands you shamed few who in here are still under the spell of the desktop lords with their lies of its the only way.

Why does it make any difference whether you use a laptop? Surely, they're functionally the same as a full size PC, providing the interfaces are adequate for your needs.

elfcurry said:

Why does it make any difference whether you use a laptop? Surely, they're functionally the same as a full size PC, providing the interfaces are adequate for your needs.

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Problem with modern laptops is many are now legacy free, (some desktops are this way too)
Legacy = PS/2 keyboard or mouse, RS232 & Printer port
USB now reigns supreme
Here's the problem, Legacy RS232 and Printer ports are very different beasts than USB to RS232 / Printer adapters. Some have excellent emulation some don't, which throughs the timing out the window; also some don't have the right RS232 voltages either and that's why many simple programmers don't work on a laptop.

The Junebug, PICkit2, Brenner 8 are all true USB programmers (and they all use the same PIC18F2550) since they are designed for USB they work just fine no matter how fast or slow your PC is.

elfcurry said:

Why does it make any difference whether you use a laptop? Surely, they're functionally the same as a full size PC, providing the interfaces are adequate for your needs.

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Laptops are very 'non-standard', particularly the ports, and anything at all modern doesn't have many ports anyway!.

Pretend 'serial port' programmers like the JDM rely on the PC serial port exceeding the RS232 standard, and laptops don't even meet the standard - by a LONG way.

I do feel as an electronics noob with a laptop (5 USB ports and NO serial) that I am missing a bit in my development (RS232 et al.)

I do have a PC in another room (gathering dust), but I don't want the new hobby to mean that I end up being "unsociable" by locking myself away for hours on end (in a shed or converted loft). A laptop allows me to study and still keep the missus happy (yes she still likes to see me occaisionally)

Mark

UTMonkey said:

I do feel as an electronics noob with a laptop (5 USB ports and NO serial) that I am missing a bit in my development (RS232 et al.)
Mark

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Yes, slow programming times. I use a serial JDM type programmer ($10) and a USB ICD2 clone ($90). The USB is MUCH faster, plus it's nice to have the option of debugging in real time. Serial programmers are cheap and simple (in fact I built my first one as one of my first projects in electronics), but slow.

I would highly recommend getting yourself a nice USB to RS232 adapter. You can buy premade ones or make your own using an FTDI chip.

This will make debugging non-usb PICs alot easier because you could use traditional RS232. Otherwise, you could use a USB PIC (PIC18F4455 or PIC18F4550 to name a couple) and have it emulate an RS232 port, HID, or whatever else.

I was just playing with the PIC18F4455 myself the other day and got a few fun examples working (kbd/mouse, HID, etc.) I'd like to get a simple usb bootloader working, but it has eluded me thus far.

blueroomelectronics said:

Problem with modern laptops is many are now legacy free, (some desktops are this way too)
Legacy = PS/2 keyboard or mouse, RS232 & Printer port
USB now reigns supreme
Here's the problem, Legacy RS232 and Printer ports are very different beasts than USB to RS232 / Printer adapters. Some have excellent emulation some don't, which throughs the timing out the window; also some don't have the right RS232 voltages either and that's why many simple programmers don't work on a laptop.

Click to expand...

Nigel said:

Laptops are very 'non-standard', particularly the ports, and anything at all modern doesn't have many ports anyway! ....

Click to expand...

Thanks both for explanations. Now it makes sense.