Major gains in fuel economy?

3vo

I am still testing mine and I havent got my electronics for th o2 sensor. I have read so many test results that say it works. I'll post my results with my system. It is an experiment. There are proven designs out there and the groups I mentioned have the best info I have found so far. There are thousands of cell designs and all claim to produce results. I tend to look for people who have done their homework and have tested things out.. saves me time and money .
The generator I built (Hotsabi) is a very simple design and has very few parts that can be damaged. What I saw on this forum (electro-tech)was people questioning it ..wanting some answers or info..

People at work complain all day about fuel prices and are skecptical about putting this on their vehicle. One of the guys brother had put one on his vehicle and claims he is has improved from 17mpg to 30 mpg on a nissan truck. Expect 20-30% increase with a properly sized and tuned unit. Believe it or not.....

MDI air car

We are behind as far as producing a car that doesn't need fuel (fossil) to run on Look up MDI air car and see what the French have that cost 8,000-15,000 dollars. We might be able to get these in 2010 if our goverment doesn't block them.

I'd like to see verifiable results of this experiment. It is highly unlikely that there is any benefit at all but if the results can be verified - great. Unfortunately, "Brother of a co-worker" isn't even close.

<sarcasm> Yeah, I bet the government is going to block anything that lessens dependence on fossil fuels. It is, most certainly, a big oil conspiracy. </sarcasm>

I agree, the burn of the mixture inside the combustion chamber happens within fractions of a second and it happens at temperatures one cannot imagine.
If your engine and ignition timing is correct it should burn quite efficiently.

The thing is there are alternatives, or theories of alternatives, and I believe it's catching up to fossil fuel.
It will be great if curjones can give us some accurate and reliable feedback on such a "water" system.
Till then.

I'll bet Jimmy Hoffa could tell us....

curjones01 said:

Go to Yahoo groups Water Car or Hydroxy for info. These guys have the answeres and the details on how and why. I just built a hotsabi generator...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I'll check it out but...I do have to agree with the <skeptic> that, 17 to 30 mpg should get at least a column-filler note in, Car and Driver or Consumer Reports or Motor Trend or Scientific American magazines. One has to wonder why this miracle method is only being touted on web pages and not in mainstream media.

I hate to seem like a grinch but, people have been known to lie their asses off on the internet. I KNOW...when I found that out it shocked me, too!

One thing I've always wondered is how the government can be so incompetent, inept and inefficient in every aspect except when it comes to supressing scientific breakthroughs (where it is so flawlessly perfect that even the conspiracy theorists can't seem to ever even be able to name one politician or G-man or agency involved).

I learned something today

Today at work I had a Co-worker ,who is pretty smart, told me IT WONT WORK.. He's not a scientist,chemist or any thing of that nature. But HE JUST KNOWS BECAUSE HE IS SO SMART. Studies have been done,and it has been in the news.. Universities have done their studies and published their findings. All I am trying to do is pass on where the info and proof is. If you don't look at it then you can sit behind the computer and be skeptical. The world was thought to be flat years ago and no one wanted to travel too far out in the ocean. I have learned that 80% of the people don't believe.. anything they don't know about they tend to discredit because it is eaiser to blow it off rather than learn..

I came here to learn about electronics PWM.. How do I know if the advice you might give is sound.. I'll have to research and test.. I have to get back to the dummies on watercar....

Do not be put off by our negativism regarding your objective. I (maybe others) will provide help regarding your PWM needs.

Why do I feel like I constantly have to explain the scientific method??

Oh, yeah, now I remember, because there is a weekly crop of people that simply don't understand it.

Ok, once more. The way science works is some one makes a claim and follows it up with experimental proof. Others reproduce the experiment and produce the same results. No proof, no credibility. If I told you the sky was green, you'd say "prove it" or worse. I think you should consider similar in the face of random claims from people.

I am also surprised that so many people don't apply simple common sense to such claims. Take the 17 to 30 mpg thing. If there really was such a device, wouldn't that be BIG news? HUGE news? Think about it. How is it possible that it could be suppressed. Wouldn't every news organization in the world be falling all over themselves to report on it? Wouldn't there be companies rushing to productize it? Think about the gold rush that lesser inventions have kicked off. Now think about the "some guy's brother put one on his truck" claim. Let's see verifiable results. Please point us to the news reports.

The news is there

The info is there on watercar. Go read itthen come back and argue your point. What do the people in the news cover. Britney spears..olympics.. what celebrity is getting drunk..who got killed last night.. When did the news in your area tell you step by step how to make some money... You guys did not get where you are today because you watched the news.

people who don't research ..read and learn. Will never advance in life. If you have a degree in electronics you have done the work and I admire you for you work and ability. The news and most people don't care. The government doesn't care what a car MFG makes or how much fuel economy they get if they did there would be a law that said you can't sell it unless it gets 30 mpg.

I had no idea this TECh. was out there until I stumbled upon it. If I get some time I'll try to get you some links to look at. Join the groups I mentioned and check out the Files section. I was reading a study on the HHO gas from a university today. HHO gas is not pure hydrogen and is usable for autos and welding and cutting torches as well.

philba,
17 to 30 is wild but 20-30% seems like something that should be reachable, and curjones01 said 20-30% is what one should expect. He made the mistake of posting the wild claim first. One people see something stupid their mind turns off and the rest of the post goes right by them.

There are two extremes. There are some people who, as you said, do not understand the scientific method. They are willing to buy into most anything
that promises better MPG.

The other problem are people so jaded that they are no longer willing to look.

The bottom line is that people have the right to be wrong, the right to disagree, and the right to keep their trap shut or not. As long as it is done in a civil manner.

It seems to me that the attitude of the people on this forum in a less civil direction.

You forgot to read the last post about scientific method. Where is the independent party reproducing the results?

HHO's value for welding is well known. It works for a tiny amount of highly focused energy. Yes, tiny.

mneary said:

HHO's value for welding is well known. It works for a tiny amount of highly focused energy. Yes, tiny.

Click to expand...

Yes, People have been selling hydrogen torches for use in jewelry making for many years.

some links from water car

**broken link removed** This is where I got my electronics PWM, Frequecy adjuster , o2 adjuster and Map sensor adjuster. You will have to find the print on the site.

**broken link removed**

This is chapter 10. Watercar Yahoo groups . Utube has a bunch of visual proof of how it works

**broken link removed**

Here are some answers about auto applications

links not working

sorry the links may not work.

If you can get the first link to work ..go to the photo section .I purchased the cosmIII unit. This should intrest you electronic guys.

I have not went out there and bought a bunch of stuff. I am messing around right now as I learn. There is not a class to go to to learn the does and dont's. I m a optimist and like to learn. If I fail I still learned something.

We tend to believe believable stuff more...

curjones01 said:

I was reading a study on the HHO gas from a university today. HHO gas is not pure hydrogen and is usable for autos and welding and cutting torches as well.

Click to expand...

See, here's the problem. You were reading it just today and you still aren't able to give us the name of the university, the writer or researcher, and a synopsis of the details contained in the document.

Masking having a lack of credible data by leveling recriminations is no help at all (and, unfortunately, tends to make you come across as "one of those conspiracy nuts").

It's like, Lipozene (the fat-burner pill advertised on TV). Why doesn't my doctor ever bother to mention Lipozene to me? After all they advertise that university studies (unspecified universities, of course) have found that it not only burns calories but, 70% of the callories burned are pure body fat. Why are people having their stomachs stapled and LAT band surgery when all they need is this powerful pill. It's certainly not being suppressed by the government. In fact, it's so unsuppressed that you can't get away from their ads if you watch any late-nite TV at all. Sadly, there IS a reason Lipozene is not prescribed by doctors. It's an herbal concoction that does nothing but sell hope to the obese.

About the PWM. What you'll get here is sound (most of the time) info that works because it follows the laws of physics and electronics and, using those rules, practical PWM circuits are built and they work. Specific schematics with real component values are available (although the PWM function is usually performed inside a chip these days and is thun unavailable to you except as pinouts on an IC). It will help if you have a specific use for the PWM circuit as that will aid in zeroing in on the available control signals and needed output characteristics of the PWM.

Links from Funkytown?

curjones01 said:

**broken link removed** This is where I got my electronics PWM, Frequecy adjuster , o2 adjuster and Map sensor adjuster. You will have to find the print on the site.

**broken link removed**

This is chapter 10. Watercar Yahoo groups . Utube has a bunch of visual proof of how it works

**broken link removed**

Here are some answers about auto applications

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what's going on with your links but, when I try to open any of them, I get a funky message about "internet settings being turned off" and then a notification that the page can't be displayed. In looking at the details of the URLs they look pretty funky themselves.

3v0 said:

philba,
17 to 30 is wild but 20-30% seems like something that should be reachable, and curjones01 said 20-30% is what one should expect. He made the mistake of posting the wild claim first. One people see something stupid their mind turns off and the rest of the post goes right by them.

There are two extremes. There are some people who, as you said, do not understand the scientific method. They are willing to buy into most anything
that promises better MPG.

The other problem are people so jaded that they are no longer willing to look.
...

Click to expand...

17 to 30 is like 76%. I agree that even 20% would be remarkable. Am I jaded? not about a lot of things but I have absolutely no interest in wasting my time on snake oil claims. The claimants should show the proof and be done with it. The fact is there is a never ending stream of people making claims about this or that magic breakthrough with 0 theory and 0 proof. If a legit researcher shows the results, then I'll listen.

Lazy Linkers

philba said:

The fact is there is a never ending stream of people making claims about this or that magic breakthrough with 0 theory and 0 proof. If a legit researcher shows the results, then I'll listen.

Click to expand...

I'll expand that one step further. There's an old saying that long preceeds the advent of the internet: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with b--- s---."

The "new" way to do the latter is to toss out a spate of links. It doesn't really matter what the content of the links is so long as it lets the poster come back and say, "Well, I gave you all the data. If you didn't follow and read my links then it's your fault that you can't see my position."

IMHO, any time someone presents a link they should back up the link with a credible synopsis of what the link contains and what it will cover. If a person can't do that, then it's a pretty fair bet that they are employing the "baffling" method.

Listen guys.

Stop attacking the man, rather help him to prove or disprove the theory.
So, it seems he is already experimenting, so all on this forum can gain something from that.
Rather than shooting everything down, allow him to experiment, and if he asks for advice regarding PWM or O2 sensor or whatever, please help him the best you can, don't try and kick the man into the gutter.
That way, your hands are clean, and who knows, somewhere in the future you might even make a valuable friend.

Take it or leave it.