Microchips PICkit 2 or Inchworm+ ?

[dusko]

I'd like to start learning about microcontrollers. It seems that PIC family is very popular, so that's what I'd like to use. I think I'll be mostly using the 16F and 18F series. My selection of languages is very limited--assembly is out of question--I simply cannot learn it. This leaves me with Basic and C. Since this is exclusively a low-level hobby, I'd like to use free compilers--either Great Cow Basic or Microchips C compiler for the 18 series. After this long introduction, my question is simple: Which of the two programmers

Microchips PICkit 2
or
Inchworm+

is better suited to what I want to do? (They cost about the same). At the moment, I am leaning toward Inchworm+, but I am not sure whether I am overlooking something. Any pointers greatly appreciated.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Makes very little difference, both will be fine.

However, if you can't learn assembly with only 35 instructions (quite a few of which you rarely use), you'll probably struggle with BASIC and C as well.

If you learn enough assembler to 'get by' it will greatly enhance your capability in BASIC and C.

 

[dusko]

Thank you for your helpful response.

I wrote about not being able to learn assembly because I just wanted to avoid endless discussions assembly vs. high level languages. Yes, you are right, it is relatively easy to learn assembly. I taught myself the z80 variant (in the early eighties) and wrote screen compression routines (that even worked) for my ZX81 and later spectrum. However, as I've already said, this is just a hobby, and I am more interested in learning to communicate with the "outside world" (sensors and process controllers) then to become proficient in yet another version of "machine language" (as it was called long time ago). On top of this, I already "speak" Basic and C.

Thanks again.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

The point isn't to actually become proficient in assembler, it's to understand the connection between hardware and software - assembler forces this on you, high level languages distance you from it - and it really limits and restricts what you can do.

By the way, back in the Z80 days it was still 'assembler' then, 'machine code' was the actual binary information the assembler created (in the HEX file for PIC). If you 'hand assembled' your code (which was how I started in 6502) you created the actual hex or binary machine code yourself - just doing it on paper, and in your head, what an assembler does for you in seconds.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

I'd say the Junebug as it's USB, includes a tutor (the advanced 18F1320 has 77 instructions) and the same price as the Inchworm which is RS232 based.
The 18F series also have a decent student edition C18 compiler for free.
Like Nigel I'm an assembly programmer. You might want to check out Swordfish BASIC for the 18F PICs.

 

[3v0]

Both work well.

The Inchworm+ is RS232 based and will be slower unless you get the Unicorn board which provides a USB interface. The inchworm will debug more chips then the PICKit2.

Bill who designed the Inchworm has a PICKit2 clone the JuneBug. It incorporates an experimenter board based on the 18F1320 with LED's, switches, IR receiver, etc. It is just a bit more then the actual PICKit2. Another advantage is that since you build the JuneBug, you can also repair it if needed. No surface mount parts.

I would go with the 18F family and the free student C18 compiler from microchip.

If you do choose the 18F family the JuneBug is a shoein given that you can do a lot of your learning without a seperate target board.

The USB setup on the PICKit2/JuneBug is also an easier to setup/manage then the one used by the USB based ICD2/Unicorn units.

 

[v1r05]

hi people, this is kinda hijacking dusko's thread...BUT
am at a smiler position as dusko. and got a question for you all

in the junebug assembly PDF file - programmer schematics page , there are 2 FETs what do they do ? are they necessary?

another question is about the inductor, must it be 680uH ?

thanks.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

The two Fets can be ommited, if you do you have to put a wire jumper where the BS250p S&D was.
The BS250p is the VDD power switch, the 2N7000 is part of the external VDD power test and can be omitted when not using the BS250

680uH is the same as the PICkit2 uses, I haven;t tried other values but since the PICkit 2 software has a VPP test mode you can try various values and see which ones work.

 

[nickelflippr]

If you look to GCBasic as your compiler, then use the Pickit 2 or clone. This will avoid the extra steps to open up MPLAB to operate the ICD2 (At least I think thats right, since I don't use ICD2).

I see the newest version of Pickit 2 firmware 2.4 supports a Uart Tool, which would be kinda neat for datalogging.

Consider a higher pin count proto board to start with, it will keep you plenty busy. Eventually, you will end up with all manner of 16f's and 18f's.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

The PICkit 2 standalone software is a pretty neat tool.
If you're not using MPASM and you are using a 3rd party compiler that does not integrate with MPLAB (and therefore you don't get the debugger ) you can use the PICkit software to automatically load and program the target PIC. The Bonus EEPROM R/W stuff is good but the UART test mode is great.
I'm wiring it up to the Mongoose kits communication connector, Nice.

 

[nickelflippr]

For the OP, GCBasic will let you specify MPASM as the assembler upon installation. The generated .asm file could be used in MPLAB to do debugging.

Whatever higher language you pick, assembly will always be lurking in the background. I think some knowledge is unavoidable.

 

[3v0]

For the OP, GCBasic will let you specify MPASM as the assembler upon installation. The generated .asm file could be used in MPLAB to do debugging.

Since the OP has not choosen a language yet it makes sense to go with C and the C18. Then he can use the Debugger in C.

As a rule Language wars suck and I try to stay out of them.

 

[mvs sarma]

I think alike 3v0,
One has to see the end result - a working code to serve ones needs.

 

[dusko]

Again, thanks for your suggestions, advice, and explanations. I've made up my mind and ordered pickit 2. And yes, I agree, I am not very fond of the debates

assembly vs. high level languages
command line vs. GUI
win vs. Unix variants
Word vs. Latex
etc.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Well that's why we made the Junebug PICkit 2 compatible.

 

[43617373]

I am sorry if this is a stupid question but where is it possible to buy a junebug online. I can not find one on the dipmicro electronics website or any of the other online electronic suppliers I know of. Do I need to email blueroomelectronics and order one from their retail store?

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Not a stupid question at all, securing distributors is not an easy business. Dontronics has expressed interest.

 

[43617373]

Where have people currently using them acquired their kits?

 

[futz]

Not a stupid question at all, securing distributors is not an easy business. Dontronics has expressed interest.

Hey Bill. Have you talked to the guys at HVW Technologies or (same people) Solarbotics Ltd. in Calgary? I occasionally order from HVW. A friend of mine (Dan Gates) works at Solarbotics.

I ordered once from Dontronics, but it seems pretty silly having stuff shipped all the way from Australia when I can get it much more locally.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

Thanks, I'll email them.