Microsoft Healt Care system.

It depends. I can walk into any hospital in my province and be treated. I can go to any walk in clinic. I can choose my own family doctor from those accepting patients. In Canada, you already have a mix of private (clinics, labs & family doctors) and public (hospitals) health care providers. The real difference is that the government runs the "insurance" system which pays for it all. This ensures that everyone pays and everyone is covered.
I can't demand that I be treated first by slapping some $$ on the counter.
I can't demand an MRI if the doctor doesn't think it is needed. (I could go to a private clinic for that and pay for it)

Tubes: Yes, I know. It's his delivery of the message which is awkward, fumbling and thus funny.

I've been to the emergency room with and with out insurance. With out insurance I waited for about two hours before getting in for stitches. Then listened to my doctor complain about not getting paid enough for this kind of work. I asked him what he pays in taxes. About $30K - $35k is what he expected to pay that year. I told him you pay more in taxes a year than I gross in a year. He had no comment.

I paid cash when I left and still got billed twice any way. And spent a day running around hospital business offices spread out over town trying to find out what pin head has the authority to reverse the billing screw ups. Phone tag was useless. They couldn't reference my receipt number to the bill I had over the phone.

The next time I was in I had insurance so I only waited an hour even though no one else had came came in before or after me. I got billed twice again even after my insurance company confirmed they had already paid. Then spent an hour getting that one reversed as well. But this time I knew what office the top pin head was in!
I just had to wait in the lobby with 20 other people that had billing problems that day.

I can see where the paper work financially adds up when you do everything twice or even three times.

The last time I was in the emergency room my insurance wouldn't cover it because I wasn't there long enough. So I had to pay the full $2089 (for a three hour visit) out of my own pocket.

Bill gates or Barrack Obama either is fine with me, either one would likely be at least a little bit better than the crap I have been through so far. If its free I can live with knowing I am getting what I paid for. Or if its like most Microsoft software the billing system will crash and lock up long before the bill ever gets to me any way or at least loose all information that relevant to whats important!

I have had enough of what we have now. If you think socialized health care is going to make it worse I seriously doubt it. Same with full competitive business or what ever Microsoft represents in this discussion.

High school kids getting minimum wage can do better financial handling and billing work than what I have seen in my experiences with the present health system we have now.

At least the local vet will call me a sheep and stitch me up next time for $100 cash and for $75 more he will even come to my house and do it! He does nice work and even knows how to do his billing right the first time!
Baa... Baa...

TCM, I am not sure what sort of health care insurers you use but here in Ca, we have some pretty good programs. I do not have insurance coverage as I am a veteran, but I do have insurance for my wife. She has Kaiser Ins, and it has been pretty good. She has been to the ER on several occasions for a condition that she suffers from and we always have received adequate care. Granted, based on triage we have not always been the first in line at the ER but once seen, care was prompt and competent.

On the further subject of present crappy health care systems.

I was going over my bank accounts today on line. I found out my old health insurance company has been taking out premium and up keep payments out of my one bank account. The thing is I gave them the boot early last spring when they dropped the ball for the last time on one of my claims.
As most of you already know what the monthly premiums and what not are with any insurance you have, factor that out over 6 months and see where your mood sets at.


Stuff is going to hit the fan Monday morning when I go to town!
The whole reason I dumped them was because they cant keep track of simple paperwork or follow up on simple customer requests. Like screw off and get lost, you have been dumped.

I really hope I wake up in one of those just hate everything about life and really dont care about other peoples feelings type moods Monday morning.

Office furniture and people could get rearranged!

I really hope I wake up in one of those just hate everything about life and really dont care about other peoples feelings type moods Monday morning.

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I suggest you keep your med insurance current. If you continue with these sort of emotions you may bust a vessel.

At one point I had duplicate health insurance coverage. One would think that was a good thing but regardless of who was selected as the primary provider (I think that was the term) neither would pay.

I scheduled a diagnostic procedure 4 time only to have it canceled because neither would approve it. Once while I was in the waiting room.

EDIT: One provider was a cobra plan from work and the other was Medicare.


3v0

3v0 said:

At one point I had duplicate health insurance coverage. One would think that was a good thing but regardless of who was selected as the primary provider (I think that was the term) neither would pay.

I scheduled a diagnostic procedure 4 time only to have it canceled because neither would approve it. Once while I was in the waiting room.

EDIT: One provider was a cobra plan from work and the other was Medicare.


3v0

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That is unfortunate. I believe medicare is in dire financial straights. To quote a news article.

With 78 million baby boomers creeping ever closer to Medicare eligibility, everyone agrees that something will have to be done to shore up the program's finances. What no one agrees on — is what.

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I suggest you keep your med insurance current. If you continue with these sort of emotions you may bust a vessel.

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I dont continue pay for stuff that doesn't work and I cant fix. I gave them the boot 5 months ago for a reason.

What I have unknowingly had taken out of my account since I told them to take a hike would just about cover a typical emergency room visit for me any way.
I am getting that money back!

I have had enough of this insurance run around BS. At least when I am uninsured I know exactly what I am covered for should I need to go to the hospital.
since I am clearly getting nothing I might as well pay nothing for it.

tcmtech said:

I dont continue pay for stuff that doesn't work and I cant fix. I gave them the boot 5 months ago for a reason.

What I have unknowingly had taken out of my account since I told them to take a hike would just about cover a typical emergency room visit for me any way.
I am getting that money back!

I have had enough of this insurance run around BS. At least when I am uninsured I know exactly what I am covered for should I need to go to the hospital.
since I am clearly getting nothing I might as well pay nothing for it.

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Get cancer and either die quickly or expect to pay as much as $500,000.00 or even more. My brother in law did.

So half of the people here would rather have MS healthcare?

Most of the people who've responded to this thread are from the US and complain about their health service being run by capitalists.

I don't understand this.

Get cancer and either die quickly or expect to pay as much as $500,000.00 or even more. My brother in law did.

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So far I have known about 20 people that died of cancer. The ones with insurance didn't last any longer on the average than the ones without.
Personally I will take 2 months of cancer over 10 years of Alzheimer's.

And as far as I know you cant take $500K from someone thats not worth it and certainly doesn't have it!

Everyone dies eventually. I am just not going to waste my time,money, and resources delaying the inevitable if the cost doesn't justify the time gained.

tcmtech said:

So far I have known about 20 people that died of cancer. The ones with insurance didn't last any longer on the average than the ones without.
Personally I will take 2 months of cancer over 10 years of Alzheimer's.

And as far as I know you cant take $500K from someone thats not worth it and certainly doesn't have it!

Everyone dies eventually. I am just not going to waste my time,money, and resources delaying the inevitable if the cost doesn't justify the time gained.

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In the case I mentioned he did have insurance, lived more than 5 years after discovery of the disease. Without insurance you would get your 2 months. Alzheimer's is not so bad on the patient, can't remember that he/she has it. Family and friend really suffer, can be destroyed.

so did he make over $100K a year after expenses and taxes?

tcmtech said:

so did he make over $100K a year after expenses and taxes?

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He did not. Straight capitalists rationing ( the kind we have now ) would have left him dead quickly. Also many expenses that the insurance did not cover.

I've been reading up on both sides of the argument and once the scaremongering and false information is taken out and the real pros and cons are weighed out for both sides.
I have decided I will support the government health care program before I would support the other ones, current and proposed. For me and the other estimated 70 million people of the nation similar to me its in my greater interests and advantages at this point and time.
Its not that the current system doesn't work for everybody. It does in fact work well for some. The Bill Gates type system also has some advantages that would greatly benefit many people too. But for me and my current life style and point in life the real government system would best suit me.
Really what it all comes down to is what system and way will best suit each person. If my life and way of living was different I can see where the other ways would likely be to my possible advantage in certain times but since I dont live that way they are not right for me now.

My vote is for government health care.
(although I see they are most likely going to drop it now)

From what I gather, the problem in the US is that the private healthcare companies have got so much money, they can fill the media with so much propaganda.

Yes, there are disadvantages to government provided healthcare but generally, most people in the UK are satisfied with the NHS, even though the media are often pretty critical of it. I used to work at an US company and Americans there seemed to think the NHS was a good idea.

There are three points against a government funded health system are:

• Cost. This is silly to start with, countries with government provided healthcare actually spend less on health per person than those that don't and have better quality healthcare. Compare the US to Cuba and Canada in the world ranking for health care.
• Waiting lists and rationing. It's true to say that there will be some waiting and to an extent rationing but the difference is, it will be prioritised to who needs healthcare most, not who has the most money.
• Less motivation for innovation on the part of healthcare providers. Not true, most of the cutting edge research is done by private drug companies and universities. Ground-breaking operations and medicines are pioneered in plenty of countries with government run healthcare programmes.
• Less choice. What choice do you currently have? Either pay huge somes of money for healthcare or do without it.
• Why should I have to pay for healthcare for other's who can't afford it? Because it's the right thing to do, don't be so selfish.

My sister lived in England in the late 60's. Her son injested paraffin (not the wax) and needed his stomach pumped. The local clinic was closed for lunch. The only person there was the cleaning lady who did not expect the doctors back for about an hour.

She then went to the hospital which was about 35 minutes away. When she arrived they could not find their one and only stomach pump. The nun that knew where it was kept was out for lunch.

About 3 hours after he was ingested his stomach was pumped.

I know that was about 40 years ago but it is how I still view the system.

The good news is that the health care plan seems to be moving to private coops that one can join. Perhaps if we can dump the money grubbing insurance companies for coops that operate on cost there will be a reduction in cost.

3v0

Yes, that was 40 years ago, things were a lot worse back in 1969.

What would she had done in the US back in 1969 is she didn't have the money to pay for a stomach pump?

Hero999 said:

Yes, that was 40 years ago, things were a lot worse back in 1969.

What would she had done in the US back in 1969 is she didn't have the money to pay for a stomach pump?

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The clinic would have pumped his stomach. Care would have been given within minutes rather then hours. She had the money to pay, but if she did not I expect they would have billed her.

The major problem I see with the US health care system is that the insurance companies have driven costs so high many can not afford (or choose not to) it.

My sister dropped her dental insurance because the co-pay under the plan was more expensive then paying cash.

A fellow I talked to at coffee paid cash for knee surgery. Had he used his insurance his portion of the bill would have been larger then the total cash price.

The quality of our care is top notch. It we can keep the insurance companies and lawyers form inflating the cost it would be among the best in the world.

3v0

3v0 said:

The major problem I see with the US health care system is that the insurance companies have driven costs so high many can not afford (or choose not to) it.

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You probably have a point there.

Some people here in the UK take out private medical insurance in the belief that they'll get a better service. In practice they don't because they end up finding out that they aren't covered and the company refuses to pay.

My sister dropped her dental insurance because the co-pay under the plan was more expensive then paying cash.

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Dental care here in the UK isn't very good, it's the one thing that the NHS has neglected. Dental care is provided by private practitioners who carry out work on behalf of the NHS. It's not completely free, unless you can't afford it, are <16 or are a student. It's hard to find a dental practise that does NHS work and when you do find one you have to attend an annual check-up to remain on their books.

The whole thing needs sorting, dental care should be free, or at least check-ups should be. In my opinion, the government should put a tax on sugar in return for providing a free dental service. I certainly wouldn't mind paying more for sweets and deserts I got decent dental care.

Perhaps the Us could do a similar thing with healthcare: increase tax on cigarettes, alcohol and fattening foods in return for a free or at lease highly subsidised health service.

The quality of our care is top notch.

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Your ranked just ahead of Cuba so it can't be that great.
The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

I don't know exactly how the WHO rates countries, perhaps the US got it's low rating because healthcare is so inaccessible rather than the quality.