Odd then that many automotive relays include diodes in the housing. This can be a pain in the backside when you don't know there's an installed diode and decide polarity doesn't matter.
The peak voltage on the transistor will be increased by a factor of R100/[relay resistance] so you must make sure that the peak voltage is still less than the transistor maximum Vce.
The resistance of the G5LE relay is 39 Ohms. The current at 5 V is 128 mA. When the transistor turns off, that current will flow through R100. If R100 is 220 Ohms, that will give a voltage of 28.2 V across R100. The voltage between the collector and emitter of the transistor is that 28.2 V plus the supply voltage plus the diode voltage, so about 34 V. That is OK for a transistor rated at 40 V or more.
The resistance in the freewheel circuit is 39 + 220 Ohms, which is 6 - 7 times larger than it would be if the diode were directly in parallel with the relay coil, so the current in the coil will reduce about 6 - 7 times faster.
The LED current is limited by both R100 and R101. If the LED voltage is 2 V, R101 is 0 Ohms and R100 is 220 Ohms, the LED current is 13 mA. R101 can be increased to reduce the LED current if required.
The connection with R100 and the LED in parallel with the diode instead of in parallel with the relay coil prevents the reverse voltage spike of 28.2 V being applied to the LED.
In your application it may not matter if you turn off the relay coil slowly. It will still appear instant to someone watching. The curves in the data sheet show that the life of the relay is reduced quite a lot as the load current goes up, and inductive load reduce the life.
Many automotive relays have a resistor built in, in parallel with the coil, and no diode. The transistors that drive the relays have to be rated to 100 V or so, if there is no external diode, but they probably would be anyhow. Having no diode means that the coil polarity doesn't matter.
Automotive relays identify terminal 86 as the positive terminal coil, and 85 as ground. The numbers are marked on the housing, the + and – may or may not be. But of course, polarity on the coil doesn't matter....unless a back-emf diode is installed. I've heard of people having a relay that doesn't work "for know apparent reason" or a replacement relay that doesn't work because there's an unexpected diode installed. The relays with diodes don't have any particular ID, so it's difficult to know.My first thought was that the rule could relate to diode polarity vs. terminal polarity?
Another way is not to use a standard freewheel diode arrangement. Instead, connect a zener diode across the driver transistor, between the coil driving point and GND. The main advantage is that the "flyback current" of the coil is dumped into GND rather than into Vcc.
The zener voltage must be at least equal to Vcc so it is not conducting all of the time, but it can be greater. For example, if you have a 12 V system and use an 18 V zener, the relay will de-energize much more quickly than with a standard diode, and most of the coil energy will go through the zener to GND.
Potter and Brumfield has an app note about this. Also, TI has a line of power driver ICs that has this type of protection built-in.
ak
I had noticed before that when the relay is being turned off, the coil current can go back up very briefly as the armature moves. Figure 2 on the P & B app note shows that.The P & B ap note :
Interesting....
Regards, Dana.
The last paragraph in the P & B app note is basically saying that the contact life has to be worked out by the user, and the ratings can't be trusted where any suppression is used. As almost all relays have some suppression, the contact ratings aren't much use.
I'd be surprised if they weren't still working, relays are very well tried and tested technology, and generally extremely reliable.Hi
We used literally hundreds of relays on traffic control systems in my former life. We always used suppression diodes across the coils unless the was a good reason not to. Those systems were extremely reliable, working for decades. I wouldn’t be surprised if some were still in service today.
True.I think that this shows that the speed of the NC relay contacts opening will be quite a bit quicker when the diode isn't fitted.
Hey all this would be my first try at creating a schematic in KiCad.
The schematic is a basic 2-channel relay.
The inputs are automotive 12v and gnd. This gets converted to 5v by the K78L05-1000R3.
The Wemos D1 mini has 2 digital pin outs that are 3.3v going to the LTV-356T with a 200 kOhms resistor in between.
From there it goes to a 1k resistor and then to the PMBT3904. Between that and the G5LE-1 relay is a 1N4007F.
In that same area is another 200 kOhms resistor that’s connected to an LED.
The outputs and inputs are the 2pos and 4pos 3.5mm Pitch Terminal Block Connector 300V 8A.
Just want to make sure my values are good and the components I have selected are suitable for my application. Please let me know if I am missing anything or have a value incorrect. Thanks!
Question also asked on:
maker.pro, electronics-lab, allaboutcircuits, kicad, Elec. Stackexchange
Oops, never mind. I see the leds have been fixed.No problem with the diode suppressors, but the leds are not wired correctly
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?