need help in PCB fabrication

[syber]

Hi i'm new to pcb fabrication.
Can any one please tell me what is the easy way of pcb fabrication. I'm staying in india and here Press N Peel transfer paper is not available. So please suggest me the best and the most easy way of pcb making.

 

[HarveyH42]

Most any kind of coated paper will work (to some degree...). The idea is to find paper that the toner sticks to, but not get fused to the paper fibers. After you re-fuse the toner onto the copper, soak in water. The paper breaks down, toner stays on the copper.

Most important thing!!! Clean the copper very well, and don't get finger prints on it before transfering the toner.

There is the photo-resist method, almost as easy, but higher cost, more chemicals, little more complicated (timing exposure, devoloping...).

Perminent markers (least desirable, but works for simple boards).

Rub-on decals (Press-N-Peel), not much better than using a pen, etchant seeps underneath...

 

[mramos1]

Search the forum. There are a ton of people that have explained it. I sent a quick version to a fellow last week. Will cut and paste if I can find it..

Found it.

YOU NEED:

Ferric Chloride 
plastic flat bottom bowl 
plastic knife (to move and remove board) 
copper clad board 
laser printer 
eagle cad 
picture paper (glossy business paper works best, photo paper worse) 
an iron 
a drill 

Think that is it. 

MAKING THE BOARD: 

Print the PCB on the picture paper and cut to size 
Cut copper to match paper size 
Clean the copper (very important part) I use wet sand paper, you can use  ajax as well 
Wipe copper with denatured alcohol 
put paper on copper. 
heat iron on max heat 
put a paper towel over paper and board. 
press iron straight down center of iron on board  * hold for 30 seconds * 
remove iron for a couple second and repeat * straight down and hold for  30 seconds * 

(that part make the paper stay in place on the copper) 
now slowly iron for 30-60 seconds, make sure you get the edges of the  board, they are the hard part. 

After done, let it cool (turn of that iron too) 
Get a cup of warm water, sometimes a drop of dish soap (soap is not required) 
drop in the board.  Wait 5-10 minutes. 
replace warm water with board in cup, and use thumbs to rub the paper  off layer at a time, sometime paper falls off  (but not often) 
with thumbs remove any paper film. 

ETCHING THE BOARD: 

You can use a plastic flat bowl or a ceramic (if ceramic you can warm  the ferric chloride as that helps) 
fill enough to submerge the board. 
I put the board face down but make sure you move it around and the face  is under the acid. 
If you move it on occasion for about 15 minutes, with the plastic knife,  you will see the copper is gone. 
remove it, rinse it. 
I use acetone to remove the toner 
clean up my mess 
and drill the board with my old dremel press. 

That is it..

 

[Sceadwian]

I've never tried it, but you can buy teflon sheets the thickness of paper, should work as good or better than most other methods I've heard about.

 

[mramos1]

Where can you get them (teflon paper) and will the laser like them? I will try it.

The transparent plastic paper is $$$. Why I went to picture paper and then found the business gloss paper..

 

[Rolf]

Dremel Work Station Model 220

(snip)
and drill the board with my old dremel press.
(snip)
[/code]

I just bought a Dremel work Station model 220. And promptly ruined several boards (stacked). This unit is a piece of junk, the downward motion is not smooth and the lateral movement is unpredictable, due to much slack. All because of poor design, no rack and pinion and cheap plastic castings.
What is the model of your unit and is it all metal with a rack and pinion?
I might buy an older model if they are any better than the 220.

 

[evandude]

I've never tried it, but you can buy teflon sheets the thickness of paper, should work as good or better than most other methods I've heard about.

I'd be pretty surprised if toner actually stuck to teflon in the first place though. I'd expect nothing better than a big toner smear coming out of the printer. After all, even transparency sheets have to be specially coated to be used in printers, and those aren't as slippery as teflon...

I've never heard of anyone using that method, but of course that doesn't mean it can't work, just speculation. I'd be interested to hear of results if anyone tries it.

I just bought a Dremel work Station model 220. And promptly ruined several boards (stacked). This unit is a piece of junk, the downward motion is not smooth and the lateral movement is unpredictable, due to much slack. All because of poor design, no rack and pinion and cheap plastic castings.
What is the model of your unit and is it all metal with a rack and pinion?
I might buy an older model if they are any better than the 220.

You just bought it recently? I had a very bad experience with the original model 220, which had a mechanism consisting of the sliding portion riding on a metal rod, moved by a curved slot cut into a metal bracket on the lever... is that the same one you have? I bought that one well over a year ago and it was so bad, I complained to dremel and apparently they stopped making it around that time because of similar complaints. They ended up replacing mine with the newer version when they finished it, and I have been using that one for quite some time now - it uses a rack and pinion, and although it's still largely plastic it has enough set screws and other adjustments that it can be solid enough to drill PCB's just fine. I can drill hundreds of holes with my tiniest carbide PCB drill bits without breaking any. However, someone else that I recommended the 220 to after that bought one, confirmed that it was in fact the newer version, but said it was terrible. I am kind of wondering if maybe I got some special version, rather than the model that actually went into production - if the one they're actually producing now is not as good as the one they sent me, then I'll stop recommending it to people!

 

[mramos1]

I am sure mine is not the 220, it is probably 15-20 years old. I have the battery operated demel in it, that does not fit, wrapped in rubber straps.

But works well. No wobble at all. Only plastic are the knobs and the straps that hold the dremel. Just looked, it is a model 210. But old as heck. The base goes up rather than dremel coming down to the board.

 

[technogeek]

My $50 harbor freight "tabletop" drill press will take my smallest drill bits, and works perfect. Weighs about 50# so it's nowhere near as portable as a dremel though... Lately I've tried using glossy photopaper and it worked good for a while (even made some doublesided boards) - then all of a sudden I can't get the toner to transfer! Even on high heat with lots of pressure..... So I don't know what's going on.

 

[mramos1]

My $50 harbor freight "tabletop" drill press will take my smallest drill bits, and works perfect. Weighs about 50# so it's nowhere near as portable as a dremel though... Lately I've tried using glossy photopaper and it worked good for a while (even made some doublesided boards) - then all of a sudden I can't get the toner to transfer! Even on high heat with lots of pressure..... So I don't know what's going on.

Main thing is clean copper. Also, the photo paper only have the gloss on one side.

I use the glossy business paper (it is on both side) as well, very easy to iron on and soak off with water..

Hammond Business Gloss paper.. 300 sheets in a pack.

I want to get a drill press from HF but I am out of room with the blast booth and 14" band saw, overkill but man can get cut PCBs.

 

[Rolf]

Dremel Work Station 220

(snip)
You just bought it recently? I had a very bad experience with the original model 220, which had a mechanism consisting of the sliding portion riding on a metal rod, moved by a curved slot cut into a metal bracket on the lever... is that the same one you have? I bought that one well over a year ago and it was so bad, I complained to dremel and apparently they stopped making it around that time because of similar complaints. They ended up replacing mine with the newer version when they finished it, and I have been using that one for quite some time now - it uses a rack and pinion, and although it's still largely plastic it has enough set screws and other adjustments that it can be solid enough to drill PCB's just fine. I can drill hundreds of holes with my tiniest carbide PCB drill bits without breaking any. However, someone else that I recommended the 220 to after that bought one, confirmed that it was in fact the newer version, but said it was terrible. I am kind of wondering if maybe I got some special version, rather than the model that actually went into production - if the one they're actually producing now is not as good as the one they sent me, then I'll stop recommending it to people!

The one I bought was second hand (hardly used), according to seller. Dremel has now replaced it with the 220-1 as far as I can tell but they look identical, so there is a question of how much the newer model has been improved.
Are there anyone that has experience with the 220-1 out there?
Older models pop up for sale now and then but I am trying not to make the same mistake again.

 

[chemelec]

I am sure mine is not the 220, it is probably 15-20 years old. I have the battery operated demel in it, that does not fit, wrapped in rubber straps.

But works well. No wobble at all. Only plastic are the knobs and the straps that hold the dremel. Just looked, it is a model 210. But old as heck. The base goes up rather than dremel coming down to the board.

I have that same Drill Press. It Works Great.

 

[evandude]

Dremel has now replaced it with the 220-1 as far as I can tell but they look identical, so there is a question of how much the newer model has been improved.

Wow, I hadn't seen that one before! I just found a picture online and it appears to have gone back to the same kind of pin-in-groove mechanism that the first one used, instead of the rack-and-pinion of the (rather short-lived) version that I have...

In that case, I hold out very little hope for it...

Well, now I guess I'd better recommend something better:
PZ541 Vertical Drill Stand from minicrafttools.com
That is what I bought when my first dremel model 220 turned out to be junk, before they had sent me a new one - it's completely metal, rack and pinion, and it works very well. It's got a big clamp that goes around the main body of the dremel, but it should be able to fit a wider variety of tools this way. it fit my regular 2-speed dremel perfectly. It's also very small compared to the model 220.

 

[mramos1]

I like this thing, not for PCBs, but that would be handy as heck.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,MS Sans Serif]MB592 Versatile Drill Holder[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,MS Sans Serif]$21.95[/FONT]​

 

[Rolf]

Replacement for the 220 Dremel Work Station

Wow, I hadn't seen that one before! I just found a picture online and it appears to have gone back to the same kind of pin-in-groove mechanism that the first one used, instead of the rack-and-pinion of the (rather short-lived) version that I have...

In that case, I hold out very little hope for it...

Well, now I guess I'd better recommend something better:
PZ541 Vertical Drill Stand from minicrafttools.com
That is what I bought when my first dremel model 220 turned out to be junk, before they had sent me a new one - it's completely metal, rack and pinion, and it works very well. It's got a big clamp that goes around the main body of the dremel, but it should be able to fit a wider variety of tools this way. it fit my regular 2-speed dremel perfectly. It's also very small compared to the model 220.

Found a Sears Craftsman Model No. 572.53169 for $39.95, don't know if it was on sale. (I forgot to ask because I got to excited!) It just about the same size as the Dremel and my cheap Chinese drill motor ($19.95 - $24.95 warable speed) fits perfectly. The Sears unit has a rack and pinion and enough adjustment screws to make it operate smoothly and accurately.
Warning about the Chinese Dremel imitation, its collets are NOT the same size as the Dremel but I have made them work anyhow. Other wise it is a fine unit for the money. It comes with a flex drive, in a nice box and slew of grinding, sanding and polishing tools.

 

[Oznog]

On the "teflon" idea:
One concern may be what the fusing heat will do to it.
I don't think the fusing temp is high enough to melt the Teflon, however, you might end up with a serious curl as it bends around the roller in a heated state. I'm not sure though.

 

[tankist80]

for what is worth - the bearings in dremel more designed for side force (as if sharpening something, or using micro cutoff tool), making it very lousy drill.
IMO dremel is a half-ass tool altogether which is not good at anything it does. the only stron point of it is the compactness.

My $50 harbor freight "tabletop" drill press will take my smallest drill bits, and works perfect. Weighs about 50# so it's nowhere near as portable as a dremel though... .

i too use the 50$ HF drill press and find it ok. i'm also very limited in space with room for one machine only so i'm switching from miter saw/table saw/dril pres depending with what i need to work for the moment while the rest live on the shelf.

 

[chemelec]

Not Sure how old my 3 Dremel are, but my guess is at least 30 years. And one I only use for drilling PCB's.

All 3 still operate fine and Considering the number of PCB's I make for personal use and others I sell, I must have drilled a Million holes by now with that one dremel.

It has gone through 3 sets of brushes on it. The origional brushes are not even available anymore. I have to file down the ones I get now, so they will fit it.

However, It still Drills Perfectly Without any visable wobble.

Maybe the Newer Models are not great, but mine Sure Are!

Seasons Greetings.....Gary

for what is worth - the bearings in dremel more designed for side force (as if sharpening something, or using micro cutoff tool), making it very lousy drill.
IMO dremel is a half-ass tool altogether which is not good at anything it does. the only stron point of it is the compactness.

i too use the 50$ HF drill press and find it ok. i'm also very limited in space with room for one machine only so i'm switching from miter saw/table saw/dril pres depending with what i need to work for the moment while the rest live on the shelf.

 

[mramos1]

I agree with Chemelec. I have two really old ones, one is in my dremel press (model 201) all very very old. That one for for boards only.

I use those two all the time. Never a problem other than dull bits and once I connected the transformer clips backwards, it did drill the holes but it was not easy The one in the press was a battery version I just clip 12 volts on it when I use it.

I am getting a Harbor Freight 4 speed one next to try it $19.95 (normally $40).

NOW, I do have a 5-7 year old dremel that I hate. I makes a lot of noise and has a slight viberation.. The variable switch seems to be warn and I rarley use it.

This is starting to make since.. I thought I just bought a lemon unit when I bought the last dremel. Looks like maybe a quality issue..

 

[philba]

For drilling pcbs, you really want a very high speed drill. well outside the price ranges you guys are talking. I used to use a delta drill press with a cross sliding vise. it was ok but I broke a fair number of carbide bits. this will happen with most of the lower speed drills. the Dremel has the advantage that it runs at high speed but has huge slop.

I use a Sherline mill now for drilling and haven't broken a single bit yet. it spins at 30K and is pretty accurate. I'll convert it to cnc some day for even better results. I bought it for a song at an auction - around $150.