Need help with wave generators

[jasonbe]

I’ve been searching the internet for DC powered sine wave generators. I’ve seen many different types, but have had trouble keeping track of the advantages of each type. Could someone tell me what type of generator would be ideal for generating a regular wave that has a wavelength of about 1 foot? I’d need to know what parts of the generator need to be adjusted to change the amplitude (maybe just by adding a resistor by the output) and wavelength (to as short as about 1/8 of a foot). Also, the generator needs to be able to be driven by about 3 volts (less than 3.3 volts). Ground is usually negative, right? Assuming ground is negative, I need for the output of the generator to connect to the positive side of the power source. Thank you.

 

[KMoffett]

Lets see, a 1 to 1/8 foot wavelength sound wave =~1125 Hz to 9000 Hz,
and a 1 foot wavelength RF/Light wave =~983 Mhz to 7.86 GhzHz.

What are you trying to do?

Ken

 

[jasonbe]

Lets see, a 1 to 1/8 foot wavelength sound wave =~1125 Hz to 9000 Hz,
and a 1 foot wavelength RF/Light wave =~983 Mhz to 7.86 GhzHz.

What are you trying to do?

Ken

I’m trying to make an inexpensive game-board that will measure positions on this electrically conducting game board as a function of the sum of the amplitude of three electronic waves having an origin at three different positions on the electronic game board. Maybe this could be compared to throwing three rocks in a pond and trying to narrow down the position of a float in this pond according to the amount or rate that the float rises or sinks at particular times as a result of the converging waves. I’d like to hook up the output of each of the wave generators – which has to also connect to the positive power source in order for me to get this thing to work, to game pieces that will connect to pins on a microchip communicating the game pieces’ positions on the game-board as a function of amplitude. I’ve also been looking for ways to vary electrical signals that can be measured as a function of distance by changing the resistive properties of the game board in the “Looking for a sheet that resists” thread in the “Math and Physics” forum. The math involved in analyzing the resulting wave patterns would be a lot more complicated if I had to use a screen instead of a nonporous – hopefully transparent, game-board material. I don’t have time to search, but in case what I’m describing hasn’t been invented, I wrote up the following claims to protect anyone who wants to experiment with these ideas. These claims are not very thorough, and do not guarantee that making this game board won’t infringe on other people’s property rights. Any other ideas of how to make this game board?

1. A device for decreasing production costs and communicating positions comprising:

A first element taken from a group of first elements consisting of a second element having a predefined shape with predefined addresses resembling a screen and having predefined electrical conductive properties

At least one means for generating at least one predefined electrical signal capable of changing;

A first means for electronically communicating said at least one means for generating at least one predefined electrical signal with said predefined addresses on said predefined shape had by said first element taken from a group of first elements;

Said first element taken from a group of first elements, consisting of a second element having a predefined shape with predefined addresses resembling a screen and having predefined electrical conductive properties, capable of carrying said at least one predefined electrical signal generated by said at least one means for generating at least one predefined electrical signal

A predefined processor

A second means for electronically communicating said predefined processor with said predefined addresses on said predefined shape had by said first element taken from a group of first elements at a predefined distance from said first means for electronically communicating;

A means for electronically communicating said predefined processor with said at least one means for generating at least one predefined electrical signal .
A means for changing said predefined electrical signal capable of changing generated by said at least one means for generating at least one predefined electrical signal taken from a group consisting of said at least one means for generating at least one predefined electrical signal and said and said first element;

Said predefined processor capable of performing a predefined algorithm relating changes in said predefined electrical signal capable of changing, changed by said means for changing said predefined electrical signal, to said predefined distance of said second means for electronically communicating, said predefined processor with said predefined locations on said predefined shape had by said first element taken from a group of first elements, at a predefined distance from said first means for electronically communicating.

 

[Mikebits]

Rube Goldberg would be proud.

 

[jasonbe]

Rube Goldberg would be proud.

In what way, i.e. what would he be proud of and what about him would make him proud?

 

[jasonbe]

So, could someone refer me to a site where I can find a ~3.0 volt sine wave generator that has a steady wave output by the positive battery source? The reason why I need the output by the positive end of the battery is because I’m hooking the output up to microchip pins.

 

[blueroomelectronics]

A Rube Goldberg is an overly complex machine for an often simple task, sometimes it's a deli sandwich.
**broken link removed**

 

[jasonbe]

A Rube Goldberg is an overly complex machine for an often simple task, sometimes it's a deli sandwich.
**broken link removed**

O.K. So, then, what would be an overly simple machine for my task? (I don’t regard my task as simple because the status of each game piece is going to depend on the status of other game pieces as well their position on the board. Maybe this task would seem simple to other people, but it does not seem that way to me.) If you could help me out with the type of sine wave generator described above, please do.

 

[jasonbe]

Any more ideas?

 

[blueroomelectronics]

If you want help then tell us some details on the board, you posted what appears to be an abstract.
How big is the playfield? How is it powered? What does inexpensive mean to you? How are the waves created? RF, optical, sound?

 

[jasonbe]

If you want help then tell us some details on the board, you posted what appears to be an abstract.
How big is the playfield? How is it powered? What does inexpensive mean to you? How are the waves created? RF, optical, sound?

The playfield is about the size of a board game - maybe a little larger, about two feet by two feet. I would like to power the board with about 3 or five volts. These three or five volts will be coming from a batter power supply or the 5 volts supplied by a USB connection. Inexpensive means that most that it can mean. I believe that the largest cost in building this game board is going to depend on game board surface – which has to be conducting. I am still thinking about options for the game board surface. The game board surface, at this time, is going to depend on the how the waves are created. Right now, I’m thinking that the best way to create the waves would be electrical sine wave generators. I’d need three sine waves, I think, to detect all of the positions on any two dimensional surface – which my game board happens to be. I’d make the sine waves originate at three different locations on the game board so that I could detect the position of game pieces as a function of the combined amplitude of the sine waves at any location on the game board where the game pieces happen to be. Looking through some schematics, I’ve noticed that the positive end of circuits tend to connect to microchips - that translate electrical signals for the computer to read. So, any sine wave generators that you can refer me to have to have at least one of the output pins connect the positive end of the power source. I’d still like for someone to confirm this, however. If the site that you refer me to does not indicate what components I have to change to alter the amplitude and wavelength of the sine wave – you could save me time by telling me. I’d be interested in other mechanisms for position detecting on a flat surface that might be less expensive than a sine wave generator, as well as more sophisticated methods that I might be able to consider independent of cost - because the technology is interesting to me, and in case I decide to improve the game board in the future. I’m probably going to wind up using a metal screen that I can place over an aesthetic game board and run the sine waves through. I want the game board to have an aesthetical appearance. My game board could have a more aesthetical appearance if you know if the conductive properties of any flat transparent materials would allow me to substitute the screen with a transparent material. Painting a thin flat piece of metal could have also an aesthetical appearance, at least more so than placing a screen over a game board. I would still have to run the sine waves through this thin flat piece of metal. I could explore this possibility of painting a flat piece of metal if you know of any paints with electrical conductive properties that would allow the game pieces to conduct the electrical sine waves through the paint. I’d be interested in any new ideas that you might have about how to make this game board. As of now, I plan on using a two foot by two foot screen, three electrical sine wave generators that run off of 3-5volts, and electrical game pieces that communicate signals to a computer indicative of their position on the game board.

 

[Mikebits]

What about using some sort of touchscreen/pad? Assuming you have a known starting place for each game piece, the software for your game could keep track of the piece position.
You might take a look at some screen vendors at globalspec.
**broken link removed**

 

[Roff]

IMHO, the only way you are going to get a scheme that uses wave propagation velocity to work is by using ultrasonics, and I doubt that is practical. Electromagnetic waves travel much too fast to be useful in such a scheme.
I also think your learning curve is going to be long and steep.

 

[jasonbe]

What about using some sort of touchscreen/pad? Assuming you have a known starting place for each game piece, the software for your game could keep track of the piece position.
You might take a look at some screen vendors at globalspec.
**broken link removed**

If you have any other ideas, I’d like to hear them. The touchscreen is a great idea, but a little out of my price range for this project. Actually, what I’m doing might be considered jury rigging a touchscreen.

 

[jasonbe]

IMHO, the only way you are going to get a scheme that uses wave propagation velocity to work is by using ultrasonics, and I doubt that is practical. Electromagnetic waves travel much too fast to be useful in such a scheme.
I also think your learning curve is going to be long and steep.

Did I make it clear that these were electrical waves being propagated through metal? The simplest way I can think of using electronic waves is to connect three relays independently controlled by a microchip to three electronic wave generators having a wavelength that doesn’t repeat over the diagonal of the game board – in the manner described in the post dated 22nd November 2008, 09:23 PM. Knowing the distance of my game piece from the origin of each of these sine waves might allow me to identify the location of the game piece. You don’t think that this will work? I was thinking that I might be able to avoid using the relays if I used a triangular wave generator, or found some mathematical relationship between the way that sine waves travel and interact. I don’t have enough background in the theory electronics to know how much I could narrow down the position of the game pieces on the game board according to an algorithm that related the combined wave height and rate of change of the sine waves – without building the board and conducting an experiment with computer output. I’m also thinking of ways that I might be able to use the wave described at Image:Synthesis sawtooth.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Another option would be to generate the signals – that would be used to detect the position of the game pieces, on the computer. However, I think that it might be easier and more interesting for me to generate these signals in the peripheral at this time.

 

[Roff]

Jason, you are barking up the wrong tree. If this were doable, it would have been done. Your idea would require frequencies on the order of several gigahertz.

 

[jasonbe]

I think that I understand what you were saying after thinking about what the wave properties of electricity really mean. So, any change in the electrical signals entering the game board indicative of the positions on the game board might have to occur not by altering the signals before they entered the game board. Rather, alteration of the signals might have to occur by selecting a game board with resistive or other electrical properties - if these signals are to indicate positions on the game board. So, now I have to identify the electrical properties of thin flat conductive materials. Maybe I should be looking for a flat material for the game board with a voltage drop of a maximum of about 3-5 volts that varies consistently as a function of distance between three points and the edges of the game board. Or maybe there is something that I can apply to the surface of the game board that changes the electrical properties of the power source connected to the game board as a function of how this something is stacked. Or, maybe there is another possibility. Do you know if there is anything detectable about the nature of electricity that changes differently when travelling between two equidistant points if these equidistant points are on a thin cylindrical conductor such as a wire, a thin flat conductor resembling a sheet - of the same material as the wire, or another conductor of the same material having a different geometric appearance?

 

[blueroomelectronics]

how many positions do the three pieces need? 64 (8x8) like a chessboard?

 

[jasonbe]

how many positions do the three pieces need? 64 (8x8) like a chessboard?

There are actually 5 pieces. I was exploring the possibility of calculating the position of any one of these five pieces according to each of their distances from three points where electricity could flow into or out of the game board. Maybe this is why you were thinking that three is an important number. The game board is going to have a map-like appearance. The more positions that I can identify on the game board, the more accurately I can represent the latitude and longitude of the pieces on the game board. I would like to be able to switch out maps underneath a screen - or a flat transparent sheet of conducting material, of which the game board could be comprised. This way, I could represent the positions of the game pieces on different maps.

 

[jasonbe]

I’m going to start a new thread in “Electronic Theory” about the structure of resistors so that I can find a material suitable for the game board. If you have any more ideas that do not require changing the material of the game board, please post them here.