Need to make project louder

Death By Bass · Jul 30, 2006

umm, isn't a higher efficiency piezo tweeter a more logical thing to do? :s

Dr.EM · Jul 30, 2006

Very well, I will just assume this is an effect of capacitance, will probably try some experiments later to understand it better.

Death By Bass makes a good point, if you haven't aready tried to find a more efficient piezo, then that could bring about some serious improvements.

Death By Bass · Jul 30, 2006

Dr.EM said:
Death By Bass makes a good point, if you haven't aready tried to find a more efficient piezo, then that could bring about some serious improvements.

its what I suggested on the first page, a few says ago... lol

get a 100dB efficient tweeter, thats going to be atleast a 15dB increase over what you probably have now.

Nigel Goodwin · Jul 30, 2006

mramos1 said:
Later I found out a "Nigel Goodwin" was wrote up in a magazine for making a piezo louder and not adding parts to a PIC circuit. It works.

Yes, that was me as well! - bridging is a VERY simple idea.

audioguru · Jul 30, 2006

Dr.EM said:
Very well, I will just assume this is an effect of capacitance.

A bridged amplifier can use a single power supply voltage and no output coupling capacitor is required.

rrch123 · Jul 30, 2006

I will try getting a 100 db piezo. If that is not loud enough (it should be pretty loud), I will try the other suggestions. Thanks

Hero999 · Jul 30, 2006

audioguru said:
The Cmos 555 has a max supply voltage of only 15V.

18v, so running this at 15V would be no problem.
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/custompdfs/2006/07/fn2867.pdf

rrch123 · Jul 30, 2006

Give me about 30 seconds and I am back with another question (this is probally a stupid question). When looking for another piezo I found one that works at 108 db, but it's freqency range is 1Khz, and the projects output range is 11 to 22Khz. Do I need to ensure that I get one that has the range of 22 Khz?
And since I have to order the piezo online. And also since the Cmos 555 can go up to 18V, I will go ahead and hook two 9v batteries to it and see my results.

audioguru · Jul 30, 2006

Hero999 said:
18v, so running this at 15V would be no problem.

I didn't know that Intersil was still in business.
National's LMC555 and Texas Instruments TLC555 Cmos 555 IC's have an absolute max supply voltage of only 15V and 12V is recommended.

audioguru · Jul 30, 2006

rrch123 said:
When looking for another piezo I found one that works at 108 db, but it's freqency range is 1Khz.

You will find lots of efficient piezo beepers that produce mostly only 4kHz.
Smoke alarms use them.

rrch123 · Jul 30, 2006

What I was worried about though is that I am trying to achive ultrasonic sound. So I need a special piezo (one that runs up to 22Khz) or will a regular one (like you said, 4kHz) work fine with ulrasonic operation.

audioguru · Jul 30, 2006

Digikey stocks about 100 piezo beepers. Pick one and look at its datasheet. It will have a huge peak at about 4kHz and nearly nothing at any other frequency.
You might get lucky and find one that produces a 5th harmonic at 20kHz.
Look at the high prices for ultrasonic piezo beepers. They are rarely used by anybody.

Hero999 · Jul 30, 2006

I've notice a resonance at 32kHz with most piezo transducers but they seem quite dead at 22kHz.

rrch123 · Jul 30, 2006

audioguru said:
Digikey stocks about 100 piezo beepers. Pick one and look at its datasheet. It will have a huge peak at about 4kHz and nearly nothing at any other frequency.
You might get lucky and find one that produces a 5th harmonic at 20kHz.
Look at the high prices for ultrasonic piezo beepers. They are rarely used by anybody.

I see what you are saying, as long as it works as I need it to. I do not really care what it's frequency range is. Thanks much.

Nigel Goodwin · Jul 30, 2006

Presumably what he's wanting to use is a piezo tweeter?, have a look here which are specified upto 40KHz.

Bear in mind these do take power to drive, and more power at higher frequencies (as their impedance falls).

audioguru · Jul 30, 2006

Nigel Goodwin said:
Presumably what he's wanting to use is a piezo tweeter?,

Motorola stopped making those awful-sounding whistles years ago. Maybe somebody makes a copy. I saw a frequency response plot and it varies all over the place, many nulls and resonances.

rrch123 · Jul 30, 2006

So what would be the the best for me with this project? Piezo beeper or a tweeter?

Nigel Goodwin · Jul 30, 2006

rrch123 said:
So what would be the the best for me with this project? Piezo beeper or a tweeter?

A beeper would be completely useless, they only work well at their resonant frequency (about 4KHz).

"Audioguru" - piezo tweeters are still freely available, and in common use, they might not sound as good as a proper coil tweeter?, but they are only a tiny fraction of the cost, and don't need a crossover. For PA use they are quite acceptable, but for HiFi obviously not.

rrch123 · Jul 30, 2006

I am looking at the tweeter that is in the link you gave, and I see that it can handel as much as much as 150W, which brings up an interseting question. If the power I need for the piezo is more that the circuit can handle, what do I do at that point? Could it might be as simple as running the extra power directly to the tweeter, or is my logic faulty and I need to redesign the circuit (then I would be totally lost)?
-or-
Am I getting ahead of myself, and 18V (or hopefully the trucks battery) will work fine?

audioguru · Jul 30, 2006

rrch123 said:
Am I getting ahead of myself?

Yeah.
Start at the beginning. You are away and drive home. You turn on the ultrasonic thingy and what are your dogs going to do? Run away?
I think the opposite. They will run to the truck to greet you.

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