new high out put leds ? 10 Watt and higher

these new higher powered leds have me a little confused and was hoping i could get a little direction from my friendly forum. i promise i did a search however there doesnt seem to be much info on the newer leds.

so lets start with, it seems the new leds are an Array of led emitters in a 3s3p config.
with specs:
Color: white
Luminous flux: 800~900LM
Forward voltage: 10-12V DC
Forward current: 1000mA
Power: 10W
Lighting angle: 100~120°
like so
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now there are other 10W led arrays that have a bit different of a packages (kinda round), and kinda looks like a 4s4p (but i dont know)(cant find anything)
with specs
Forward Current: 1000mA
Forward Voltage: 11V
Power: 10W
View Angle: 140°
like so
https://www.hero-ledstore.com/heroled-10-watt-high-power-cool-white-led-800900-lumen-p-11.html


So simple first question are these LEDs basically the same minus manufacturing packaging, and does any one know if one package is a better design that generates less heat than the other?

next is where i may be over thinking myself and a bit confused about constant current power. maybe its as simple as watt to watt(9X 10Watt = 90Watt or higher power is needed).

say we wanted to build a 9 led unit. i understand that a Driver is required. Similar to the resistor when using small leds it limits current to the forward current value. (i hope this is correct thinking).

so back to the design of the 9. am now having issues understanding how to select and wire the driver.

my thought is using a 100 watt driver with these specs
DC:28-33V
DC:3.0A±3%
100W Max
**broken link removed**

one would wire it in 3S and 3P... my thought is the 3S will get the forward voltage to 33V and then the 3P is to maximize the leds per driver
HOWEVER im completely lost.

it seems the driver is capable of 3 amps output with 9 leds im creating 9 amps of forward current.

am looking at it wrong and im supplying 1 amp to each series of leds totaling 3 amps for the 3S3P led array?


thanks in advance for the help.

So simple first question are these LEDs basically the same minus manufacturing packaging, and does any one know if one package is a better design that generates less heat than the other?

Click to expand...

There is not much data. Normally I would want the package that has the lowest thermal resistance to the heatsink. (most metal)

The LED driver also has (no data).

Three LEDs in series gets you to about 33V at 1A
Three LEDs in parallel gets you to 3A at 10 to 12V

The 3x3 array is (30V to 36V) at 3A.

Without having a detailed datasheet then how will you determine the size of a heatsink? By trial and burn-outs?

These LEDs have a very bluish white color. Do you like blue (many people say it looks harsh)?

I think I would get the one that has a heat sink for it on the same page.

https://www.hero-ledstore.com/heroled-10-watt-high-power-cool-white-led-800900-lumen-p-11.html

The heatsink is pretty big but its size is needed. It has 80 fins that should cool it enough.

I wasnt worried about heat sinks, ill be using 110mm round by 35 mm tall. I just didnt know which package was better, the more I understand the more I see the 3s3p being the way to go. Then the problem I have is the lack of data. Thats somewhat why I came here, there really isnt much out there in terms of knowing what the light pattern looks like and such. So yes ill be doing a little trial and error. Id like to see these take the place of other lights, but it still seems like efficiency, cost and size are still a bit behind to be able to accomplish this.

And the lights are actually for orchids and other plants. Will mix the 6500k and 3000k
To get a fairly close to natural light.

Hi,

If you have to dissipate 10 watts of heating power then you need a heat sink that will take the heat away while keeping the temperature under a certain limit. The most common limit is a 60 degrees C rise but you may want to go lower depending on where this will be used.

To get that to within spec, you would find a heat sink that can provide enough cooling so that 10 watts doesnt cause more than a 60 degree rise in temperature. This is sometimes stated in the specs or at last the thermal resistance is given and you have to calculate it yourself.

But as others have mentioned, you probably want to get LEDs with the heat sinks (or at least a small heat sink) attached. LED emitters need to be coupled to the heat sink with thermal epoxy in most cases or clamped down firmly somehow. I've used other types of epoxies but i dont want to recommend anything other than what is made specifically for heat sink applications such as the "Arctic" type thermal epoxy compounds, because other types of epoxies vary considerably as to their heat (temperature) properties (some will actually melt).

If you have any doubts, test one piece first if possible and extrapolate the data to the full LED count and see what gives.

"So simple first question are these LEDs basically the same minus manufacturing packaging, and does any one know if one package is a better design that generates less heat than the other?"

There is a very key specification that is missing: the package's thermal resistance junction to case.
You should select the one with a lower value, which means that it can transfer heat more efficiently.

But since it is not available, I would go for the next thing, which is the thermal resistance case to heatsink. Using an identical thermal interface for both, the device with the largest contact surface area would have the lowest value, and I would go for that.

browningbuck said:

And the lights are actually for orchids and other plants. Will mix the 6500k and 3000k
To get a fairly close to natural light.

Click to expand...

I looked in Google to see what colors are needed for flowers and found many articles about growing MaryWanna.
Flowering plants need red and blue. The leaves are green because they reflect away green light. 6500k (cool white) has a a lot of blue and yellow. 2700k has a lot of orange, some red and some blue.

Your Chinese LEDs have no detailed datasheet so I copied the spec's from a Philips Luxeon LED datasheet.
If your LEDs are similar then you found a good combination of colors for growing flowering plants.

When using large LEDs I usually measure the temperature of the heat sink and use that to feedback how much current goes to the LED. There are several flashlights on the market that are very bright for the first 30 seconds then dim as the temp climes. That way they can claim the light output at 1.5X current and the battery life of 0.7 current at the same time. Flashlights often run at below room temperature with little heat sink. A "grow light" runs above room temperature and needs large heat sinks.

AudioGuru found an interesting thought. There probably is no need for green light.

i promise guys im OVER sizing the heat sink. they are rated for 30Watt LEDs. the first question was more about which LED package that has better transfer of heat to the heat sink like you "ronsimpson" said, so looking at the back of the package i found the square unit has more surface area so im using that as a good indicator that it might be more efficent at transfering the heat to the heat sink.
the light wave and color are not optimal, but the colors are proven to work (ive used them in smaller wattage setups with acceptable growth) the growth isnt as important as the view-ability of the tank that they are in.

also it seems there is a lot of confusion to my questions and really its because no spec data can be found... so it seems like we all are lost.

**broken link removed**

so now i am on to ordering a few to test and see what kind of out put to heat generation to quality of light that will be created.

alright next question. is creating a cirucuit with different Wattage Leds in the design a bad idea? there are a few combinations i want to try and keep cost to a min.
the specs are are
10Watt led FV=27-30V @.35A
20watt led FV=30-36V @ .7A
30Watt led @ fv=32-34 @ 1.05A

drivers availabe mean well
LPC-60-1400 = 9-34V @1.75A
LPC-35-700 = 9-48V @.7A
LPC-60-1050 = 9-48V @ 1.05A
EDIT Found a dimmable thats = 30-36V @ 3A

so it seems the best i can do is a 20 or 30Watt led on a dedicated driver , then 5X 10 watts in parallel on a different driver. that kinda sucks i wanted to have some flex ability with having two different watt leds like 3X 10 watt leds and a 20w or 30w on one driver.

EDIT the dimmable seems like i might be able to do what i was wanting, but it doesnt seem i can make the draw work correctly if i wired them all in parallel.

browningbuck said:

it seems there is a lot of confusion to my questions and really its because no spec data can be found... so it seems like we all are lost.

Click to expand...

That is what happens when you buy cheap no-name-brand Chinese crap from E-bay.
Maybe you can save some money by doing the testing yourself.
Tell us if they are still working or not after a couple of weeks. Good luck.

audio, youve been a lot of help in a few of my past projects, i hope my choice in LED hasnt upset the forum. there is a bit of logic behind it. going cheap means i can do this unit for $60 (which isnt really cheap) i cant seem to find anyone else with a package capable of 10W or more thats reputable (less watt units means way more set up and time on creating the fixture). also if i could find a 10W phillips or something id consider them. i mean im trying to stay quality with the driver but thats because its available. anyway im still thankful for the help to this point, and ill def update the board on quality/ longevity.

nm,,,,,,,,,

UPDATE!!!! so i have been working with the LEDs and hope i can get maybe a little input? The LEDs are Speced to operate at ~150*F in my current set up i am running 3 leds that are 20watt led FV=30-36V @ .7A wired in parallel. I am using the Mean well LPC-60-1750 = 9-34V @1.75A driver. my thought was that if i had a higher under powered the leds i would keep them cooler. Voltage from the driver is 31V measured. in the set up they are running around 200*F on the diodes and the sinks are pulling a lot of it out pretty quickly. am i screwing something up? or is there a way to turn the temps down a bit more with a pasive cooling system like seen below?

( i removed the driver from the aluminum tube after the pic due to heat)
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Another Fixture i am working on that is a 20W single light.
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