Not able to recognise this motor type

rjenkinsgb · May 9, 2022

ganeshgovalkar said:
Motor is not working using 5v DV power.

It needs 24V on the main power between VDD (+) and ground (-).
The PWM pin is 5V logic level and switches the motor on and off.

ganeshgovalkar · May 9, 2022

rjenkinsgb said:
It needs 24V on the main power between VDD (+) and ground (-).
The PWM pin is 5V logic level and switches the motor on and off.

so should I try using 24v dc VDD (+) and ground (-) and PWM input left open?

rjenkinsgb · May 9, 2022

ganeshgovalkar said:
so should I try using 24v dc VDD (+) and ground (-) and PWM input left open?

Yes, that's the first thing to try.

If it does not run at that, try connecting the PWM input to 5V, or ground, and see if either make it run?
If nothing works, the motor is most likely dead.

tonigau · May 9, 2022

rjenkinsgb said:
If nothing works, the motor is most likely dead.

It could also be the motor needs PWM control signal to operate.
Be careful, if inadvertently apply +V supply to PWM wire this could damage the control circuit in the motor.

When you finished playing with the motor...
Does your multimeter have Diode Test function? (most do nowdays), when you check the components I suggested we will know more what might be ok or need to replace.
The diode test applies a small current & displays the voltage of the circuit under test. It is great for revealing shorts, can see briefly ..uF capacitor charging, AB compare test etc...

The battery would have supplied most of the current to finish off D1 so T1 could be still ok.
D1 is not needed to run fan from battery, its part of the charge circuit, DON'T connect DC charger supply without D1 diode!, T1 is only a 30V device.
Have you checked/re-solder battery +pin solder join ? It looked like cracked solder in the photo.

As you mentioned earlier you have LED's so this shows logic supply N1 & MCU N2 are ok.

tonigau · May 9, 2022

I did a quick sch, if no mistakes this should be the power circuit.

Les Jones · May 10, 2022

Hi Toni,
Your schematic makes sense now that I realise that T1 is a switch mode regulator for battery charging. I think the most likely explanation for D1 failing would be the battery connector being reversed at some point. (Assuming it is possible to insert the connector the wrong way round.) It would be interesting to know if there is any voltage on the VDD pin of the motor connector when the TS answers the question in post #46. If the battery voltage was too low it is possible that the MCU will not enable T2 to protect the battery from over discharge.
A question to the TS. Measure the voltages with respect to GND at the source and drain connections of T1 and T2 and the voltage on the gate connection of T2. (This is with the controls of the device in the state that would normally cause the ban to run.)

Les.

tonigau · May 10, 2022

Battery & PCB are in fan enclosure so no chance of reverse battery during normal use.
Yes, the MCU would know if battery Volt is low & could stop the fan via T2.
In a test last year I discharged all the way to stop & observed the fan speed slowly decreasing in steps getting towards LVC. I don't know (or care) if LVC was the battery BMS or MCU turning off T2.

Pommie · May 10, 2022

tonigau said:
Battery & PCB are in fan enclosure so no chance of reverse battery during normal use.
Yes, the MCU would know if battery Volt is low & could stop the fan via T2.
In a test last year I discharged all the way to stop & observed the fan speed slowly decreasing in steps getting towards LVC. I don't know (or care) if LVC was the battery BMS or MCU turning off T2.

What you know (or care about) is not relevant. The OP may have different experiences to you.

Mike.

tonigau · May 10, 2022

Pommie said:
What you know (or care about) is not relevant. The OP may have different experiences to you.

I'm just meaning when I did the test, as long as something was doing Low Volt Cutout I didn't care.

I have a couple of lithium cell powered devices that don't have LVC & I have to be the BMS !

ganeshgovalkar · May 13, 2022

Opened motor for a better idea.

ganeshgovalkar · May 13, 2022

rjenkinsgb said:
Yes, that's the first thing to try.

If it does not run at that, try connecting the PWM input to 5V, or ground, and see if either make it run?
If nothing works, the motor is most likely dead.

No! Not working

ganeshgovalkar · May 13, 2022

Les Jones said:
Hi Toni,
Your schematic makes sense now that I realise that T1 is a switch mode regulator for battery charging. I think the most likely explanation for D1 failing would be the battery connector being reversed at some point. (Assuming it is possible to insert the connector the wrong way round.) It would be interesting to know if there is any voltage on the VDD pin of the motor connector when the TS answers the question in post #46. If the battery voltage was too low it is possible that the MCU will not enable T2 to protect the battery from over discharge.
A question to the TS. Measure the voltages with respect to GND at the source and drain connections of T1 and T2 and the voltage on the gate connection of T2. (This is with the controls of the device in the state that would normally cause the ban to run.)

Les.

GND+T1 and T2 Drain connection is about 25-26vDC in the meter.

Les Jones · May 13, 2022

See the datasheet for the mosfets from the link in post #55.

Les.

ganeshgovalkar · May 13, 2022

ganeshgovalkar said:
What is the drain connections of T1 and T2???

GND+T1 and T2 Drain connection is about 25-26vDC in the meter.

Les Jones · May 13, 2022

If that is supposed to be the answer to the questions in post #66 then you need to re read that post.

Les.

ganeshgovalkar · May 13, 2022

Les Jones said:
If that is supposed to be the answer to the questions in post #66 then you need to re read that post.

Les.

voltage on the VDD pin of the motor is 25-26vDC and GND+T1 and T2 Drain connection is about 25-26vDC in the meter.

ganeshgovalkar · May 13, 2022

tonigau said:
It could also be the motor needs PWM control signal to operate.
Be careful, if inadvertently apply +V supply to PWM wire this could damage the control circuit in the motor.

When you finished playing with the motor...
Does your multimeter have Diode Test function? (most do nowdays), when you check the components I suggested we will know more what might be ok or need to replace.
The diode test applies a small current & displays the voltage of the circuit under test. It is great for revealing shorts, can see briefly ..uF capacitor charging, AB compare test etc...

The battery would have supplied most of the current to finish off D1 so T1 could be still ok.
D1 is not needed to run fan from battery, its part of the charge circuit, DON'T connect DC charger supply without D1 diode!, T1 is only a 30V device.
Have you checked/re-solder battery +pin solder join ? It looked like cracked solder in the photo.

As you mentioned earlier you have LED's so this shows logic supply N1 & MCU N2 are ok.

Yes! my multimeter have Diode Test function. I have re-solderd battery pins.

rjenkinsgb · May 13, 2022

ganeshgovalkar said:
No! Not working

OK, could be something failed in the motor then.

These are the datasheets for the controller IC and power FETs:

https://mallimages.ofweek.com/Upload/guige/2018/05/22/2454/%E8%A7%84%E6%A0%BC%E4%B9%A6.pdf

NCE4614 datasheet

NCE4614 datasheet, NCE4614 equivalent, NCE4614 cross reference

datasheetspdf.com

ps. The "speed" pin on the motor is likely a tacho pulse output, not a control input.

ganeshgovalkar · Jun 4, 2022

Good day, everyone!
With the BDLC sensorless driver, the fan has resumed operation. I simply kept star winding and connected directly to the BLDC driver. I've attached some images for your consideration.

I'd like to express my gratitude for your time, advice, and support.

Special thank to Les Jones MaxHeadRoom78 Les Jones Nigel Goodwin Pommie tonigau rjenkinsgb

I'll update you once I fix the battery backup. BMS is on the way...

Regards,
Ganesh Govalkar

Not able to recognise this motor type

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