Not your typical Xbox wireless controller!!

[SmokedCircuit64]

Hello,

This is NOT your typical Xbox controller mod or hack. I need to build a totally new controller to control specific functions.

I still need the wireless connectivity that the existing controller has. I would rather NOT just mod an existing controller due to patent rights. I want to build a totally new large scale controller.

I'm sure there has to be an existing circuit out there that can give me wireless connectivity to control 8 to 10 functions and communicate with the Xbox 360.

If someone knows of a wireless circuit I could use for this, that would be a huge help.

Thanks!

 

[Blueteeth]

Well, even if you do build your own custom controller form scratch - in order to market it, your fears of 'patent rights' might come back to haunt you. Although I don't think any wireless protocol you use is copyrighted, the way in which the 'dongle' that plugs into the Xbox might be.

Many chinese companies sell stuff like this on ebay, that are fully comptable, and they don't seem to get in trouble though - so if I were you, I would just hack one. Be it an oficial wireless controller, or a knock-off. That'll handle ALL the wireless bits for you, leaving you to simply add your own signals to the controllers 'internal micro' - essentally replacing the analogue sticks and buttons.

But as yo're woried about patent issues, then I'm assuming you wish to market such a product, and mass produce. In which case you should do your research into short-range wireless comms. There are many 2.4hz transciever chips around (TI's chipcon, Nordics NRF24L01, atmel has a few) as well as modules for Zigbee. Also, as you're marketting the product you probably know a thing or two about microcontrollers and embedded electronics, or have to funds to hire an engineer to develop a prototype for you, so I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for?

If its a custom thing just for you and maybe a few friends, don't worry about patent issues, its by far easier to just buy a finished product and treat it as a 'group of modules' you can take apart, and modify for your own purposes.

Btw, I am totally unaware if the xbox 360 uses wireless controllers based on bluetooth or a built in proprietary system. If it uses BT, then you can simply by your own bluetooth modules, but you would need to know the specifics of the Xbox's BT end in order to communicate with it. If its a custom job, then you would need to contact microsoft and enquire about creating your own controller so they can provide the necessary info All the previous answer was based on just a 'controller' and a 'dongle' that you physically plug into the xbox - I seriously doubt that approach would infringe on copyright.

 

[SmokedCircuit64]

Blueteeth,

Thx for the reply. The 360 wireless uses 2.4GHz wireless technology with 30-foot range, Not sure if it is BT or not.. Still looking into that. I'm currently figuring out the workings of an existing controller that served me very well for a long time. I already planned to replace the factory contact-switches with momentary micro switches (mms) donated from some older equipment I had laying around. I have tested the mms and they work fine!
I worked out the layout for the controller on my CAD program last night.

As for the circuit board, I was actually thinking that there might already be a manufactured multifunction DIY remote board out there that could possibly work for me. But I'm unsure where to start looking for that. It also has to be programmable so I can sink it with the game console. Something like a 10 CH remote control.

 

[Dragon Tamer]

Wii, Xbox, Playstation, all these use BT technology for their wireless communication. It is what allows multiple controllers to connect at the same time.

I think that you would be better off modifying the existing controller and not worry about the patten rights. As long as you are not planning on selling the device you made in large quantities then you have no leagal implications to worry about. IMO rule number one in custom electronics is that it is easier to modify an existing system than it is to build one from scratch.

If you want a controller that should be relatively easy to modify, look into an afterglow controller. I have one of these for my Wii and while it's not the best controller in the world, it works for me (that and it looks pretty cool too).

I don't think that they make any controllers that have 10 channels for XBox. The reason being that with any of the BT tech game consoles, the BT module has to be programed to work with that specific console. Unless you are prepared to order one for your project.

 

[Blueteeth]

Which b rings us nicely back to premade bluetooth modules. They're cheap and plentiful these days, with on board microcontrollers having many forms of interface. This then becomes much less of a hardware problem, and more of a software one. Adding buttons/switches/sensors/displays to a BT module is trivial, as almost all of the above just require digital I/O, ADC's, or SPI possibly UART, all of which are plentiful in even the simplest bluetooth modules. Often manufacturers of the modules include software libraries, so its really plug and play.

However, knowing how to program the BT module to communicate with these devices, inteperet the data and then be able to effectively negotiate a link with the console is another matter. I'm sure it has been done, after all, I've seen wii controllers used for robotics, and that hack is just the reverse (if you know the specifics of the BT link the controller uses, then thats the same as the host/console uses).

 

[Mickster]

Some info which may, or may not, be of use to the OP.
A guy going by the name of RDC on xbox-scene.com, has done quite a bit of research into the 3 types (Matrix, CG & CG2) of Xbox wireless controller.
The photos in the thread linked below, with various traces highlited, are his and there are also many more of his photos to be found on that site, if you are willing to search.
**broken link removed**

Regards.

 

[SmokedCircuit64]

Thanks guys.. This was all very informational. For the sake of just learning my way around the xbox control circuit board. I'm going to be hacking a the circuit board I pulled from a plastic guitar hero controller. I looked at it over the weekend. Although not exactly like the hand held controller I think it has a slight advantage in that it is already partially pre-wired. After some testing the various connections I will only have to need to mess with the directional pad pads as far as adding new wires.

I ordered some short snap in 30M arcade style buttons for the first test of the controller. Once I'm comfortable with that I'll start looking into a new board. I think might be able to sell this controller. Not on a huge scale, but it could be as little as 100 I'm sure.

 

[Blueteeth]

Ok, I actually bothered to look this up, the 360 doesn't use bluetooth. Its the same sort of thing as wireless controllers used for the Ps/2 using - proprietary 2.4Ghz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_Controller

So you'll just have to hack an existing controller like you're doing now

I thought it was a little odd, using BT for a simple controller - its totally overkill to have a full network compliant device which can talk to up to 128 devices (both send and receive) JUST for a simple controller. I imagine the bluetooth module in the 360 is purely for wireless headsets and other accessories which require bandwidth.

 

[SmokedCircuit64]

Ok A question... So the xbox controllers are powered by two 1.5V AA batteries for a total of 3V. The question is can I use a power supply that is 3.3V? will 0.3V make a huge difference or hurt anything?

 

[Blueteeth]

Probably won't hurt anything. Although its proably not just a question of 'everything is powered by 3v', because AA's voltage drops to ~1.2V at the end of their life. Also, recharable NiMH kick out 1.2V average, making it 2.4V nominal. My guess is that theres a switched mode power supply in there, probably a buck-boost/sepic which outputs 3V with an input of 2.4-3.6V. If you look on the picture you posted (3rd) you'll see as 22uH inductor - that'll be part of a switching power supply or perhaps just a filter

If you're worried, and just want to power things up whilst testing out your mods, put a schottky diode in series with your 3.3V as these will generally drop 0.2-0.4V giving you 2.9-3.1V which is pretty much spot on 3V.

 

[SmokedCircuit64]

The reason for asking the question is two fold..

Firstly is that I will be using this new controller alot. I would like to use a older PS I have so I can plan on adding 12V LEDs to it at a later date. So that rules out using the old power method of two AAs.

Secondly is that I have to hack the controller to turn off the "auto shut down" feature that is built in to the controller to help save the batteries.

I got confirmation that the arcade buttons shipped yesterday. Once I get those here I'll do some measuring to determine the thickness I need to make the new controller case face plate and post some pictures.

 

[SmokedCircuit64]

Controller Face Plate

Well as you can tell from the laps in time from my last post.. I finely got the arcade buttons in. Last week to be exact. So this past weekend after measuring and remeasuring and second guessing myself several times. I cut the first hole and there was no turing back from there.
The controller face plate grew to 30" long and only 10" tall. The spacing will work just fine for my size 13 grape mashers.. LOL
I added an additional spring to each button on the inside to get it a little more resistance and a more positive feel. As the buttons come stock they felt really light to the touch when pushed. I wanted to insure they would stand up to constant mashing with the foot.

I haven't finished wiring it up but once I do I'll post more pictures. Hacking the old GH controller has proved to be the smother route to this point.