Patent Laws

AS a freelance designer I was wondering what are the laws when it comes to producing circuits,, Am I allowed to make my various logic circuits, then sell them to my neighbors at a garage sale prices?
Do i need to patent it?
Or approval by the FCC or maybe CSA?
Do I need to offer warrenties?
Or assume liability for defective products(is there a no liability clause i can issue)?
How far can i go before i get big brother barkin up my tree?


I know that I can't produce any crazy radio waves, and other radiation,

but/! what about simple things, like my digital bongs and DIY vaporizers?

I am...happy to say...thoroughly lacking in personal experience in these matters.
Which means no one has any reason to sue my ass off and leave me destitute and living in my mother's basement. Which would be a real hardship since she lives in a mobile home.

Consider this: Apple sued Microsoft when uSoft first introduced its original version of Windows after the Macintosh GUI had been out a while. They argued (successfully) that since they (Apple) had gone to great lengths to determine in study groups and surveys what constituted a useful and proper GUI system, uSoft should not be allowed to just use the same visual elements in the same placements as Apple's. Thus the close-window button resides in opposite corners between the two designs. Which is a real hoot, because they both stole from Xerox PARC's original concept for a GUI. But Xerox powers-that-be never considered the GUI effort worth their attention, so they let it pass. Even when others in the computer industry tried to get them to jump Apple and uSoft for their theft of intellectual property.

And intellectual property is a real murky realm. Great arguements arise over how much difference exists between two similar designs and if the later design can rightly be called unique. There is an entire legal industry bent on proving their client has sole proprietary ownership to a blinking yellow LED on a front panel while the other half of the industry argues that their client's design is unique because their LED is orange.

As for UL/CSA, I have had to obtain and study the guides put out by UL and CSA. You can spend thousands on testing labs to determine if your design meets their requirements. They even specify a model for a plastic finger to determine if your cooling vents can thwart children from getting their fingers inside to the dangerous stuff. We produced a security product used in TVA nuclear plants that met DOE security concerns that would have never sold in LA because we never had UL testing done to get the UL approval.
If you have a Chinese assembly house make your product and they use lead paint or cadmium coating, you will quickly find your product off the shelves and some federal agency grilling you in depositions.
If your product throws sparks under someone's Christmas tree and ignites it, you can only hope everyone gets out OK and you only get sued for damages and lawyers' fees (theirs and yours).

Patents are a trip unto themselves. A recent TV show had an expose about the hardships of obtaining one. One gentlemen decided that in the time it took him to get it, his prying competition in the Pacific Rim would flood the market with cheap ripoffs and leave him in the dust. He concluded his best strategy was to borrow thousands from relatives, tool up and start producing units in large numbers as soon as possible, and hang the patent.

Considering how sue happy people are in this country, I can only recommend you carefully investigate every aspect of protection for yourself and those you plan to sell to. Have you read a disclaimer in the opening of any product's user guide lately? I can't believe some of the EULAs you have to agree to even in free software offered online nowadays!
Keep it simple; design for safety; provide really good instructions; sell it locally.
Take care.
kenjj

You should be OK as long as you dont sell anything illegal or dangerous or could burn down someones house. You dont need or want patents, They cost thousands of dollars and take years to be granted. Also there is no point in patenting a circuit. Most IC's are never patented. UL and CSA are not necessary, Again thousands of dollars and not required by law. FCC approval is not needed if your not running at high frequencys.
But if you start making really big $$$ then everyone will want a piece of you.

lol, well if that happens, i'd have the money to piece it out,

i'm just afraid of wiring up a flip-flop for someone then having my a$$ sued for copyright or something.

or what about a device that is "for educational purposes only", am i in the clear if I provide warnings that it is just for educational purposes, or maybe ones that say "18+, responsible users only"

I see on the web that alot of times you can buy the plans and/or parts, but then need to assemble on your own, maybe though they do it since its a scam, maybe inadequate docs? One eg. is the GEET fuel processor....

Patents are notoriously difficult to protect and prosecute somebody under. For regular people, the chances of you being sued for patent violation is practically zero. Especially if you aren't selling a product. Patents are pretty much large companies play things that are used as leverage against other large companies. There have been long discussions over patents and hobby electronics on here before.

doggy__ said:

lol, well if that happens, i'd have the money to piece it out,

i'm just afraid of wiring up a flip-flop for someone then having my a$$ sued for copyright or something.

or what about a device that is "for educational purposes only", am i in the clear if I provide warnings that it is just for educational purposes, or maybe ones that say "18+, responsible users only"

I see on the web that alot of times you can buy the plans and/or parts, but then need to assemble on your own, maybe though they do it since its a scam, maybe inadequate docs? One eg. is the GEET fuel processor....

Click to expand...

As Brevor said, you only really have to worry if you start making big bucks from a design that may infringe on someones patent. It's all about the money.

Often times they sell only parts and plans on the web, since that's a lot easier and cheaper than building a device to sell. Whether it's a scam or not is often related to what it claims to do. If the claims are hard to believe, such as it's going to give free energy or allow your car to get 100MPG, then I would take that as a big warning flag. If it's just to perform some common circuit function, then it's probably legitimate.

Just don't infringe in any of my patents!



Oh wait... I don't have any. Nevermind.

[rant]
20 years ago I got sick of working my butt for little pay so decided to start my own business, first I started a engineering business and got a 12 month contract on a construction site. I got asked if I could find some decent tradies so I went and asked a few mates and employed him to be contracted to the company that had the contract. In 12 months I had 60K in the bank then decided to sit back and start my leather business. A gal came in oneday and asked if I could make some round leather lace for necklaces, well I did a heap of research and got no where so grabbed a kangaroo hide, cut it in a circle then cut about 300 metres of lace. Then I did a process where the flat lace was transformed into round lace that was so strong a kid near choked when his necklace hit a branch on a tree. After more refining of the leather I was to have a strong lace but not that strong to cause injury. The process I made was what my mate said so unique I should try and patent it.

Well after 2 months of research and talking there was no way I could even think about putting my design out into the public domain and spend over 50K getting a patent only to find my process was out there for everyone to use.

Anyway someone did comein saying the were interested in my lace and took my idea over to the east and basically stole it. About 9 months later I was forced out of the market so closed up shop and put all my gear into solid box's where they still sit in my shed today.....

[/end rant]

So the moral of the story if your a millionaire and want to pay patent attorneys heaps for a design that is worthy go for it..... if your a small guy trying to get there FORGET IT

Cheers Bryan

Digital bongs? Vaporisers? If that's what I think it is you might want to google/wiki for Tommy Chong and see what happened to him - I saw him interviewed on the Tonight Show after he got out of Jail.

wateva eh! I meant for tobacco products!

actually, i was thinking more like those 4x4x4 led cubes anyway, i noticed THEY aren't on ebay... !

Watch the movie STROKE OF GENIUS
its about the guy who invented the electronic intermittent windshield wiper.
He took a couple of transistors and other basic components and made a circuit. The big 3 stole his idea, was in court for 20+ years. He died a poor man but then the court ruled in his favor and his kids got $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from the big three car makers.