peeln press - air bubbles!!!

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justDIY

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I'm having some major frustration trying to do a rather large board (3.5" x 2") with PNP Blue.

Whats happening is air is getting trapped or formed under the plastic sheet, and results in little air bubbles. so I'm left with voids.

any suggestions for getting rid of the air bubbles? I've tried starting my iron on one side and moving in a single direction, to give them room to escape, but it doesn't seem to make much difference
 
A 3.5" x 2" board is not large.

Check the user hints on the It simulates the action of a laminator.

The Pulsar paper is quite stiff and would not bubble but it is less transparent.
 
Do you have any pictures? I've been using press-n-peel blue for a long time, done boards that big (and bigger), and don't think I've even ever seen an air bubble before...

Perhaps you should describe your ironing process a bit as well, to see if there's anything you're doing differently than most. For comparison, I've got a little tutorial put together if you want to see the way I do my ironing:
https://eegeek.net/content/view/34/31/
 
I'm using a regular clothes iron, set on heat level 5 (of 7). any higher than 5 seems to distort the plastic. The pcb material is cleaned with steel wool and acetone, and then with alcohol. I usually put a loop of tape on the back side of the board, and stick it down to a thick piece of tempered glass, then the pnp, then a sheet of paper. the iron seems to glide better on the paper than on the plastic alone. I lay the iron over as much of the board as possible, for maybe a min to set the film to the board, and then I start moving the iron around while pressing down. I've found I need to pay extra attention to the edges of the board. After 4-5 min, I'll let the board air cool, and then peel off the film. On small boards, the outcome is flawless. But I'm having a heck of a time getting it to work on this larger board.

I'll try again using the dowel method and see if that helps to squeeze out the air bubbles, and if not, I'll take some pictures.
 
I've never seen this either!

What you could try, if you can see where the bubble is, is to prick it with a needle - not on a track though - then iron again. The needle hole will release the air.

I got a laminator - see the pulsar site - and my boards have come out way better.
 
Hero999 said:
Why would you get bubbles, I thought it was paper which is porous?
Click to expand...
press-n-peel has a plastic backing, basically a transparency sheet, with the blue film on it.
 
I was having trouble with air bubbles while laminating film over paper documents with stationey store laminating film. After turning up the heat progressively and pricking and doing multiple passes through the laminator and still having bubbles I called the film manufacturer. They said to turn the heat DOWN from the recommended setting a few degrees, not up. That worked. Try lower temperatures.

awright
 
I don't see how you guys can use a clothes iron. It took me 7 tries to get my first usable board, and wasn't pretty. True, I had find the right paper. temperature, pressure, time... What a hassle, and time consuming. I bought a 4" laminator under $25 (surplus store), use Pulsar paper, and get perfect boards almost everytime (little careless with fingerprints), even very fine lines.
 
HarveyH42 said:
I don't see how you guys can use a clothes iron....
Click to expand...

I feel about the same way, the laminators take the out the guess work. But I am curious about how well the dowel works. Might be a good way for people to get their feet wet. JustDIY will let us know if it works for him Yes?
 
I need to be in a more patient mood to learn the secrets of the dowel. My spidey-sense wasn't telling me when I was near the edge of the board, and the iron kept slipping off, causing me to smash the iron serveral into the glass panel I was working on. luckily it's 1/4" thick tempered glass
and didn't notice the blows at all.

however, reducing the heat did yield better results. Still had some bubbling, but it was much improved. I'll try an even lower setting next time.

right now I'm having trouble with my cupric chloride etching solution. it's gone from taking 5 min to 15 min to 45 min to etch a board.
 
When I iron with a dowel/roller, I roll it back and forth a few times without getting too close to either edge, and then I let it roll off the edge once or twice for the front and back edges to make sure they're adhered. That, and I'm ironing on a workbench, not a pane of glass

I'd probably buy a laminator if I ever stumbled across a good deal on one that I knew would work well, but given their usual price and the things I've heard about different units' ability to handle the normal 0.062" thick PCB, I haven't been in any rush to buy one. That, and I have had great luck with my $7 iron and press-n-peel - it transfers fine, the first time, every time, for me. With that said, I have used a big laminator once or twice making boards at work and I can see the appeal of set-it-and-forget-it ease and perfectly consistent transfers with zero effort.
 
It took me 7 tries to get my first usable board, and wasn't pretty.
Click to expand...
You aren't the only one, but I think I etched after only a couple of tries, and it sure wasn't pretty.

taking 5 min to 15 min to 45 min
Click to expand...
I think that is way too long. Do you heat your solution some, and keep it moving?

From what I've heard, the danger of undercutting your traces increases with the time it takes to etch. Perhaps some of you others can jump in here with opinions about this.
 
Last edited:
taking 5 min to 15 min to 45 min
Click to expand...
Forgive me but you do know the solution wears out.
It will only etch a fixed quantity of copper then you need to replace it.
Sounds stupid but I had to ask.


How long it takes depends on several things.
Warm solution etches faster.
There are several different thickness of copper. Are you using the same boards?
 
as I understand it, cupric chloride etchant takes a long time to wear out, and turns a deep dark green when it is "saturated". The step I was missing was regeneration, which is in progress now. I've got some plastic air stones and a pump pushing air through it now, which turns the Cu2 ions back into Cu1 ions or something like that. Anyway, it's working, as the color of the solution is slowing turning from blue to green. My last etch took around 10 min, a marked improvement.
 
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