Police flasher project?

colin55 said:

The man in the corner-store, in the electronics market, has FutureKit kits and one of the kits will have a 4017.

And there are lots of shops there that specialise in chips, chips, chips. just nearby.
Build it and you will see why it doesn't work.

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I don't need a voltage divider for a simple pull-down, which the diode does reliably.

You seem to know more about Thailand than I do.

The corner-shops in Bangkok are just 345km away from my location, which means a full day's trip, increasing the cost for a 15Cents item to several 10US$.

Please tell me where to find the man in the corner-store.

Using a simple chip out of a kit is wasted money, isn't it?

Just wait and see what I have to post (if necessary with a movie) when the circuit is finished.

Boncuk

marvel6869 said:

thank you alot. now the next challeng will be building a PCBLAYOUT

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You forgot to mention how many LEDs you want to connect.

If it's not too challenging please do it.

Boncuk

Boncuk said:

You forgot to mention how many LEDs you want to connect.

If it's not too challenging please do it.

Boncuk

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okay sorry i forgot ill be using a 2 led for left side and 2 led for the rigth side. so that it will flash 3L & 3R and also ill be using a battery.

Hi Marvel,

I picked up the idea as shown in the video. The design uses two LED arrays of 12 each.

This is a dual flasher circuit.

It uses IRF7401 MosFet transistors in an SO-8 package. Soldering shouldn't be a problem because one complete row of pins must be shorted anyway (drain pins, see highlighted trace on the R/H side). There are three source pins (2-4) which must be shorted as well.

Board size is 3.77X2.47" (single sided)

Boncuk

Boncuk said:

Hi Marvel,

I picked up the idea as shown in the video. The design uses two LED arrays of 12 each.

This is a dual flasher circuit.

It uses IRF7401 MosFet transistors in an SO-8 package. Soldering shouldn't be a problem because one complete row of pins must be shorted anyway (drain pins, see highlighted trace on the R/H side). There are three source pins (2-4) which must be shorted as well.

Board size is 3.77X2.47" (single sided)

Boncuk

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thank alot body i was hope i can make it blink trice thanks you so much

I'll have to build the circuit first and check if it works the way the simulation showed.

When it's done I might forward the Eagle files to you.

You might also build the circuit on your discretion.

Boncuk

from Boncuk
I studied your website thoroughly and couldn't find my schematic or parts thereof being published under "find the mistake".

That proves to me that you are a liar!

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You will find your circuit on page 10 of "Spot the Mistake" on my website.

from Boncuk

Besides that I would prosecute you publishing my designs without my permission! Publishing circuits in the forum does not automatically mean they are public to any person in the world to be distributed.

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Producing a circuit that has not been tried, from a person that does not even have a 4107 IC, is a bit of a surprise.

from Boncuk
Your arrogance proves to me that you are a school teacher having learnt electronics from books without ever having soldered a circuit to function as proposed.

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I have serviced over 35,000 electronic appliances: TV's, stereos, written 25 books on electronics, sold over 500,000 copies and designed all the circuits in my books, I think I have a little to offer in the way of saying a simple circuit using a 4017, will not work.

from Boncuk
Concerning the circuit I suggested a voltage divider improves the no-go voltage from 310 to 300mV, while 310mV is clearly below the base voltage required to allow current flow from emitter to collector of the transistor.

I even added a second 1N914 in the base connection which won't do anything except increasing part count.

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I really don't know what you are talking about.

from Boncuk

You should know that you ordered 10,000 pieces of my circuit publically! If I take you by the word I will deliver and charge any price coming on my mind! (And I will receive payment as already indicated by my lawyer, if necessary to the extend of your personal bankrupt).

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Ordering 10,000 items does not form a contract. There is no price, no delivery date and no method of payment. You must have a very peculiar lawyer in Thailand if he thinks a request for 10,000 items can be delivered AT ANY PRICE and then send the recipient into bankruptcy.

from Boncuk

You haven't invented anything till now.

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If I haven't invented anything till now, how did I manage to make millions out of selling my own products?
On top of this, the other electronics magazines were reading my work "to the letter" to find anything, anywhere, that had been copied, to send me into bankruptcy.
They then resorted to bringing out another magazine, in direct opposition to mine, at a lower price. They then flooded the market with twice the number of copies.
After two years they gave up.
Their editor rang me saying: “you have won the day.”
Don’t you think I have a little knowledge in the way of producing a circuit?

I have really finished with this issue.
Your circuit does not work. I have written it up on my site to warn others not to rely on Simulation Software, and I have got on with other things.

The first thing I suggest you do is buy a 4017 IC


Colin Mitchell
Talking Electronics

colin55 said:

you will find your circuit on page 10 of "find the mistake" on my website.



Producing a circuit that has not been tried, from a person that does not even have a 4107 ic, is a bit of a surprise.



I have serviced over 35,000 electronic appliances: Tv's, stereos, written 25 books on electronics, sold over 500,000 copies and designed all the circuits in my books, i think i have a little to offer in the way of saying a simple circuit using a 4017, will not work.




I really don't know what you are talking about.



Ordering 10,000 items does not form a contract. There is no price, no delivery date and no method of payment. You must have a very peculiar lawyer in thailand if he thinks a request for 10,000 items can be delivered at any price and then send the recipient into bankruptcy.




If i haven't invented anything till now, how did i manage to make millions out of selling my own products?
On top of this, the other electronics magazines were reading my work "to the letter" to find anything, anywhere, that had been copied, to send me into bankruptcy.
They then resorted to bringing out another magazine, in direct opposition to mine, at a lower price. They then flooded the market with twice the number of copies.
After two years they gave up.
Their editor rang me saying: “you have won the day.”
don’t you think i have a little knowledge in the way of producing a circuit?

I have really finished with this issue.
Your circuit does not work. I have written it up on my site to warn others not to rely on simulation software, and i have got on with other things.

The first thing i suggest you do is buy a 4017 ic


colin mitchell
talking electronics

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i got a 3 pcs 4017 ic . And i cant get the circuit running.... Help

colin55 said:

here is my circuit to stop all the jumping around with descriptions that don't make any sense.
The point to note here is the fact that you described a circuit without actually building it. I learnt not to try that trick, 40 years ago when i suggested a frequency-to-voltage converter without having actually built it.
No 555 is going to turn off a transistor via a gating diode.
Both of my circuits flash each led 3 times. You can adjust the dual 555 circuit to produce the exact flash-rate, and effect, you desire.

**broken link removed**

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please help i have conpleted the parts and and 3pcs 4017 ic's and i cant get it running no flashing were happend

I think everyone is too busy fighting to help you!

Have you built it on a plug-in breadboard? Try taking the 4017 out, and put a LED and 470 ohm resistor (in series) from pin 3 of the 555 to ground. If the 555 is working the LED should flash.

Mr RB:

I think everyone is too busy fighting to help you!

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I read your comment as: everyone is "fighting to help you."

Whereas it should have been: "I think everyone is too busy fighting, to help you!"

I reminds me of the reply from the King: "Hang Impossible Release"


The messenger, being a friend of the accused, simply added a comma:

"Hang Impossible, Release"


And he took his friend home.

colin55 said:

I have really finished with this issue.

Your circuit does not work. I have written it up on my site to warn others not to rely on Simulation Software, and I have got on with other things.

The first thing I suggest you do is buy a 4017 IC


Colin Mitchell
Talking Electronics

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You bet I will build the circuit as shown here and it WILL work. You simply forgot to study the 1N914 datasheet.

The sentence in your article on your website does not consider the actual voltage drop which you stated as being "about 0.8V". It goes down as far as 240µV at very low forward current. Applying a base voltage lower than 0.7V (actually 0.3V in the simulation) on an NPN transistor will not cause a base current high enough to make the transistor conduct, which means the transistor will turn off.

I guess it would be a shame for the developers of Proteus ISIS (4,500 pounds Sterling) not to take component characteristics into consideration to simulate a circuit.

Boncuk

Firstly I never said the voltage would be 0.8v. I said the diode drop would be 0.6v and the output of the 555 would be 0.2v.

Secondly, you claim the forward current though the 1N914 is in the range of 1µA to 2µA.

How can the current be 2µA when you are supplying 12v minus a few diode drops though a 4k7 resistor. The current should be 2,000µA. You are only out by a factor of 1,000.
I build ALL MY CIRCUITS before publishing them, so that I don't get into an argument like this.
During the building of my circuit I obviously tried a simple drive to the buffer transistor and it did not work.
You are running around in circles, arguing, and you don’t even have a 4017 in stock!
I have copied all your angry, private emails, to a file to keep them for posterity as your emails are the first I have received in 40 years. I like them.
I have taught students, and teachers, for many years and have never had an argument like this, with someone who hasn’t even tried to build the circuit.
I realise the electronics stores are over 300kms from you, but haven’t’ you heard of the postal service?

I have found out why your circuit will work:
You use "Silicium diodes" . . . .

Boncuk

Silicium diodes' foward voltage (drop) is mainly dependent on the forward current!

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mR. BONCUK sir do you have a PCB on this one?

Boncuk said:

I'll have to build the circuit first and check if it works the way the simulation showed.

When it's done I might forward the Eagle files to you.

You might also build the circuit on your discretion.

Boncuk

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hi mr boncuk can you send me a PCB LAYOUT of your circuit if not too much in pdf file hehehehe thnks

boncuk said:

here is another one.

I doesn't strobe three times but alternates dual strobes with dual leds. (see attachment)

speed is variable between 10 and 20hz.

Boncuk

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can you give me the list of materials? On this ckt:d

colin55 said:

Firstly I never said the voltage would be 0.8v. I said the diode drop would be 0.6v and the output of the 555 would be 0.2v.

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Do you remember what you have written in your article?
Here it is:

"When this is combined with a gating diode, it produces a voltage of about 0.8v on the base of the driver transistor and this will NEVER turn the transistor OFF."

How can the current be 2µA when you are supplying 12v minus a few diode drops though a 4k7 resistor. The current should be 2,000µA. You are only out by a factor of 1,000.

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Besides the supply is 9V the diode is connected directly to the base of the transistor (not through any resistor)

I build ALL MY CIRCUITS before publishing them, so that I don't get into an argument like this.

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That could clearly be seen in your first posted circuit. The LEDs didn't flash twice or three times, but eight to ten.

I have copied all your angry, private emails, to a file to keep them for posterity as your emails are the first I have received in 40 years. I like them.
I have taught students, and teachers, for many years and have never had an argument like this, with someone who hasn’t even tried to build the circuit.

Click to expand...

How can you be sure it won't work not having built that circuit?

As already said: Whatever turns you on.

I realise the electronics stores are over 300kms from you, but haven’t’ you heard of the postal service?

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Please go ahead an order ICs from a chinese electronic shop in Bangkok. They'll tell you to appear in person and pick them up. The next question arises when you select any shop. One trades CMOS ICs solely, the other one LS-chips, and so on - up to shops trading connectors (but only males or females)

Bangkok Chinatown has about 500 electronic shops, most of them trading industrial overproduction items or sellouts from bankrupt manufacturers.

No chance to find the man in the corner shop here.

In the meanwhile just lean back relaxed and wait for the results.

Boncuk

Boncuk
Why don't you have the ability to quote correctly? My description of your circuit contains the following two paragraphs; you only quoted the second paragraph. I realise English is your second language, but any intelligent person would include the whole description:

“The fault with the above circuit lies in the fact that the output of a 555 is about 0.2v to 0.5v above the negative rail when outputting a LOW.
When this is combined with a gating diode, it produces a voltage of about 0.8v on the base of the driver transistor and this will NEVER turn the transistor OFF.”


The circuit you drew had a supply of 12v. I don’t know where you got 9v from.

The thing you don't understand is this:
The transistor is being turned on via a 4k7 from a 12v supply (less a few diode drops). To turn the transistor off, you have to create a voltage lower than 0.6v and also take a current of approximately 2mA so the transistor is turned off.
I don’t know where you get the current-flow of 2microamps from.

My first posted circuit called POLICE LIGHTS merely alternately flashed two LEDs, so I don’t know where you got the idea of it flashing 8 to 10 times.

You obviously can't read. I have already said I built your circuit and it did not Work:

During the building of my circuit I obviously tried a simple drive to the buffer transistor and it did not work.

Click to expand...

Please go ahead an order ICs from a chinese electronic shop in Bangkok. They'll tell you to appear in person and pick them up. The next question arises when you select any shop. One trades CMOS ICs solely, the other one LS-chips, and so on - up to shops trading connectors (but only males or females)

Bangkok Chinatown has about 500 electronic shops, most of them trading industrial overproduction items or sellouts from bankrupt manufacturers.

Click to expand...

I have been to the market many times. Agreed, they sell all the over-production etc but at very good prices. A 4017 is about 25 cents. Are you are not willing to risk 25 cents on an order?

Are you that hard-up for cash?

I used a 4017 in the first issue of my magazine, over 30 years ago. It is one of the most-useful chips on the market.
I cannot understand how a hobbyist could not have one in his parts-box.

You are obviously not an experimenter.

This thread has gone far enough, all marvel6869 asked for is help in building a police flasher circuit. The fighting between Boncuk and colin55 has resulted in member abuse from both parties. This isn't in the forum interest where 2 supposed senior members bicker to the point of bringing the forum standards down into the gutter.

Sorry marvel6989 this thread is now locked and both above members can sit on the bench for a day and think next time they want repeat this behavior will result in a 1 month ban.

Bryan