PWM - browns gas generator

Nobody has proven that HHO helps increase the fuel economy of a gasoline or diesel car.
The sites that talk about HHO just want to sell useless and expensive "plans".

Meyers claimed that his car was started with a battery then the battery was disconnected and the engine burned the HHO and its alternator made more. The exhaust system condensed the exhaust back into water so it was used over and over. Perpetual motion from water!

Of course the case against Meyers was just a big scam organised by the oil companies to protect their profits.

Hero999 said:

Of course the case against Meyers was just a big scam organised by the oil companies to protect their profits.

Click to expand...

I don't believe that for even a minute.
If that were true, they would also be after the Hydrogen Car manufacturers, Electric Cars as these are becoming Much more popular.
Possibly also Solar and wind production which can offset oil heating in homes.

Actually if you check it out I am quite sure you will find the Oil companys are also involved in subsidizing these other resources to help reduce the load on the oil industry.

Oil WON'T Last forever and most of the new reserves being found are very expensive to get at and extract.

Ever thought maybe its the oil companies producing all these ridiculous 'free energy' schemes, the 200 mpg carberator, and various other timeless frauds? It does a lot of damage to legitimate fuel alternatives, not to mention that anyone that does come up with actual ways to save or eliminate fossil fuels has a real tough time selling the idea.

You probably cannot make enough HHO to make any difference on how gasoline or diesel is burned.
The HHO scams have the car's alternator smoking with a high current to make a few small bubbles per second while the engine needs many liters per second.
The car's computer will say, "WTF?"

I like HarveyH42's suggestion. Of course the oil and auto companies are supporting the HHO scam. Those alternators mentioned by AG cost money. The auto companies, which are having such a hard time selling cars, sell them as well as other parts that might get ruined.

John

Edit:

PS: I am all for locking any thread that mentions HHO. Or, maybe there could be a sub-forum for wacko pseudo-science.

hi John,

When the OP's talk of drawing 100's amps from their car alternators, they seem to forget that its the car engine thats generating the current.

The engine has to work harder, using more gas and considering the low efficiency of the overall loop, they will be out of pocket.

No such thing as a free lunch, in physics...

I agree, ref the locking of this type of thread.

Well its all my fault, I should have reworded this thread so i could have gotten some actual help on the circuit. instead it starts a long debate that doesn't help the matter(if your not part of the solution then your not helping.)

Yes there are people that like to take advantage of other people and there money, thats just a way of life. But to totally put down a technology because of these scammers well.....(Do you work for the oil company too?)
I watch the stock market also and the news lies....

In the matter of a car having enough power to run a 30amp to 15amp HHO cell. well the alternator has the power now-aday's to push 85amp's max. back in the day they where only pushing about 60amp's.
lets also think about all the extra circuits in the car that are not used to often. Head lights, wind shield whispers, wind shield wiper pump, sun roof, power windows, radio, A/C, electric seats, power locks.

But now this post is totally off topic and I still need help on my circuit.

When the alternator is running the "head lights, wind shield whispers, wind shield wiper pump, sun roof, power windows, radio, A/C, electric seats, and power locks" it is also charging the battery. So the alternator doesn't have any extra current available unless you replace it with a bigger one. I didn't include the important rear window de-icer that uses a high current. My car has electric power steering.

Has anybody calculated how much HHO is needed then calculated how little HHO will be produced?

If you want Help on this, Why not go to an Appropriate Forum that Deals with this?

http://oupower.com/phpBB2/

**broken link removed**

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/board,8.0.html

**broken link removed**

Or Any one of 10,000 Others.

Flex said:

Well its all my fault, I should have reworded this thread so i could have gotten some actual help on the circuit. instead it starts a long debate that doesn't help the matter(if your not part of the solution then your not helping.)

Yes there are people that like to take advantage of other people and there money, thats just a way of life. But to totally put down a technology because of these scammers well.....(Do you work for the oil company too?)
I watch the stock market also and the news lies....

In the matter of a car having enough power to run a 30amp to 15amp HHO cell. well the alternator has the power now-aday's to push 85amp's max. back in the day they where only pushing about 60amp's.
lets also think about all the extra circuits in the car that are not used to often. Head lights, wind shield whispers, wind shield wiper pump, sun roof, power windows, radio, A/C, electric seats, power locks.

But now this post is totally off topic and I still need help on my circuit.

Click to expand...

chemelec said:

I don't believe that for even a minute.
If that were true, they would also be after the Hydrogen Car manufacturers, Electric Cars as these are becoming Much more popular.
Possibly also Solar and wind production which can offset oil heating in homes.

Actually if you check it out I am quite sure you will find the Oil companys are also involved in subsidizing these other resources to help reduce the load on the oil industry.

Oil WON'T Last forever and most of the new reserves being found are very expensive to get at and extract.

Click to expand...

I hope you realised I was being sarcastic, hence the smilie.

I've heard that kind of arguement many times before and it's nonsense because if the oil companies were that powerful then scientific research in to anthropogenic climate would have been censored a long time ago.

Thanks guy's for having this conversation ......

I will not worry about posting that stupid PDF now. I'm sure it's just another one of these Scams.

This bantering is just what I wanted to see.

Thanks again............. kv

The mind is a parachute, open it.

I do. I believe the point is to eliminate current draw by increasing the voltage, and pulsing and stepping the charge. Through doing this we find a lateral way of "breaking" the water. In electrolysis (30% efficiency, high current draw, poles far apart, non-pulsed) we break water. With the pulse step method, we persuade water. It's like offering to break the water, and then revoking the offer several times a second. this makes the water near break, but no current flows and no energy (very little that is. As little as possible. In theory, none.) is used. the built up charge on the electrodes feeds back to where it came from. the battery. the only energy loss is due to internal circuit resistance. which is negligible. This method is like tantric electrolysis. You never commit the energy to the water, but through teasing, the water rips itself apart. Plates must be close together, closer the better. the cell must be tuned to not consume current. Do not put catalysts in the water. It must be a dielectric (non-conductor) for this to work. The idea is that current never flows between the plates, but the voltage build up stretches the water repeatedly and incrementally more. and lets it go 42000 times a second. When the water is stretched, it gains elastic kinetic energy. when let go, it springs back, and is stretched again on the reflex recoil. so stretch, release, recoil, reflex recoil, stretch, release, recoil, reflex recoil, stretch. reflex recoil is the recoil from the recoil in the opposite direction of the original recoil. Ie. spring effect. If you get it you get it, if you don't, then think about it. Either way, this is the way.

Oh... that's why it doesn't use current.. It loans energy, and then takes it back. In

Space Varmint said:

So you don't think there are any advantages to raising the voltage and modulating it with a frequency?

Click to expand...

I do. I believe the point is to eliminate current draw by increasing the voltage, and pulsing and stepping the charge. Through doing this we find a lateral way of "breaking" the water. In electrolysis (30% efficiency, high current draw, poles far apart, non-pulsed) we break water. With the pulse step method, we persuade water. It's like offering to break the water, and then revoking the offer several times a second. this makes the water near break, but no current flows and no energy (very little that is. As little as possible. In theory, none.) is used. the built up charge on the electrodes feeds back to where it came from. the battery. the only energy loss is due to internal circuit resistance. which is negligible. This method is like tantric electrolysis. You never commit the energy to the water, but through teasing, the water rips itself apart. Plates must be close together, closer the better. the cell must be tuned to not consume current. Do not put catalysts in the water. It must be a dielectric (non-conductor) for this to work. The idea is that current never flows between the plates, but the voltage build up stretches the water repeatedly and incrementally more. and lets it go 42000 times a second. When the water is stretched, it gains elastic kinetic energy. when let go, it springs back, and is stretched again on the reflex recoil. so stretch, release, recoil, reflex recoil, stretch, release, recoil, reflex recoil, stretch. reflex recoil is the recoil from the recoil in the opposite direction of the original recoil. Ie. spring effect. If you get it you get it, if you don't, then think about it. Either way, this is the way.

Myles said:

With the pulse step method, we persuade water. It's like offering to break the water, and then revoking the offer several times a second.

Click to expand...

and later:

Myles said:

You never commit the energy to the water, but through teasing, the water rips itself apart.

Click to expand...

I didn't realize it was an emotional bond between the hydrogen and oxygen in water.

Myles said:

The idea is that current never flows between the plates, but the voltage build up stretches the water repeatedly and incrementally more. and lets it go 42000 times a second. When the water is stretched, it gains elastic kinetic energy. when let go, it springs back, and is stretched again on the reflex recoil. so stretch, release, recoil, reflex recoil, stretch, release, recoil, reflex recoil, stretch. reflex recoil is the recoil from the recoil in the opposite direction of the original recoil. Ie. spring effect.

Click to expand...

You seem to be describing molecular vibrations, which are at a much higher frequency than 42 KHz. Have you read anything about infrared adsorption spectra?

In any event, you are adding kinetic energy to the water (as you claim), but you also claim there is no energy used to do that? Don't you believe in conservation of energy and matter?

Myles said:

If you get it you get it, if you don't, then think about it.[emphasis added]

Click to expand...

Yes, you should.

John

@#%$&ing Nay-sayer

What we are doing is manipulating molecular vibrations.
Yes, this will change the infrared adsorption spectra. It will enlarge it, thus making the water more conducive to absorbing a larger spectrum of IR light.
So? What does IR absorbtion factor (also increased) and spectrum have to do with what we are trying to achieve?

When we manipulate the molecular vibrations, we intensify them. So the frequensy lowers... Ie. the H and O bonds don't normally oscillate at 42 Khz, but when we intensify the amplitude of that oscillation, it does.

The first law of thermal dynamics. Ah, yes. I do believe it.
But if you read properly, you may have deduced that the cell is a capacitor, not a resistor. It charges, then before the jump, discharges. the current goes right back into the battery it came from. THE CURRENT DOESN'T JUMP. 0 Watts (ideal, never actual, but close as it can get). Thus the energy is invested into the plates (for about 0.00002 seconds) and then rolls back into the battery.

The cell uses charge to coax water little by little over the edge of break point, without actual current flow through the cell.

Anything with inertia is can be quite emotional, sometimes more so than inanimate lifeforms.

It's not overunity, it's around

I must emphasize once more, we want close to 0 current draw.
The cell needs to be tuned for this to happen, otherwise you'll get less output at more cost. With zero current draw, we use stepped and pulsed potential to break the water.

That's what sets this apart from standard electrolysis, which was ironically discovered by the inventor of the capacitor. A standard electrolysis tank is a resistor. Faraday can be forgiven for not discovering the capacitive electrolysis method as things like Transistors and 555 timers weren't around until the 1970's..

The whole "HHO, improve your mpg" thingy is just called HHO to get your attention. It's just electrolysis. It isn't even efficient, let alone over unitic, but will improve your mpg. It'll also leave your car battery perpetually under-charged, if but slightly.

The "PWM HHO circuit", Meyers/Joe/Brown/possibly Klein's design, is a different kettle of fish. It's what Jules Verne predicted, and is beyond efficient. Because it is a non-discharging capacitor. Current never flows between the plates, just up the one and back again.

Lowest current (none if possible). Highest voltage. Lowest heat. Highest yield.

Over unity is not possible, but efficiency is most often laterally applied.

DREAM ON!

Until you actually Prove your idea, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself. They just show your ignorance on this subject.

Myles said:

I must emphasize once more, we want close to 0 current draw.
The cell needs to be tuned for this to happen, otherwise you'll get less output at more cost. With zero current draw, we use stepped and pulsed potential to break the water.

That's what sets this apart from standard electrolysis, which was ironically discovered by the inventor of the capacitor. A standard electrolysis tank is a resistor. Faraday can be forgiven for not discovering the capacitive electrolysis method as things like Transistors and 555 timers weren't around until the 1970's..

The whole "HHO, improve your mpg" thingy is just called HHO to get your attention. It's just electrolysis. It isn't even efficient, let alone over unitic, but will improve your mpg. It'll also leave your car battery perpetually under-charged, if but slightly.

The "PWM HHO circuit", Meyers/Joe/Brown/possibly Klein's design, is a different kettle of fish. It's what Jules Verne predicted, and is beyond efficient. Because it is a non-discharging capacitor. Current never flows between the plates, just up the one and back again.

Lowest current (none if possible). Highest voltage. Lowest heat. Highest yield.

Over unity is not possible, but efficiency is most often laterally applied.

Click to expand...

Myles said:

What we are doing is manipulating molecular vibrations.
Yes, this will change the infrared adsorption spectra.

Click to expand...

Please provide the data.

When we manipulate the molecular vibrations, we intensify them. So the frequensy lowers... Ie. the H and O bonds don't normally oscillate at 42 Khz, but when we intensify the amplitude of that oscillation, it does.

Click to expand...

Data?

It is not a question of what you want to happen or what you dream may be happening, it is a question of fact. Do you have any data to present? Please show your results?

John

chemelec said:

DREAM ON!

Until you actually Prove your idea, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself. They just show your ignorance on this subject.

Click to expand...

Back at you.