Relay to make low beams come on when I call for high beams?

[nehuge]

1995 Ford F53 chassis, came with the old square sealed beams.

Converting it to a 9005 and 9006 setup. Did a three relay setup, one is low beam relay, other is high beam relay, and the third is a holdover relay. It is supposed to keep the low beams on at the same time the high beams are on when HIGH beams are called for. I don't want all four on at all times.

On the Ford wiper stalk, I push it forward until it clicks and it turns on the high beams and the low beams turn off. When I bring the stalk back to center position/neutral, the high beams go off and the low beams come back on. When I pull the stalk towards me to flash, the low beams go off, the high beams flash, and letting it flick back to neutral makes the high beams go off and the low beams go back to normal. This is cool that something is working, but still no low beams coming on with the high beams together at the same time.

Here is my setup:

The vehicle has three wires that used to go to the sealed beam types with a three port female plug and the sealed beams had the male 3 prong connector; Now with the 9005 and 9006 housings, the Low Beam wire, High Beam Wire, and Ground wire that come from the headlight switch from Ford now go to three relays. I have three five pin relays (with two pin 87's on each, not an 87 and an 87a like you'd see on others.) A Low Beam relay, High Beam relay, and Hold-Over relay.

All three relays have pigtail connectors connected to them so I have decent length wires to tie together instead of having to crimp ends and slide them on the relays pin's directly.

The colors on the pigtail wires coming from the relays' pins are:
Red from pin 30
Black from pin 85 ground
White from pin 86
Yellow from center pin 87
Blue from outer pin 87

- The low beam wire from the vehicle's headlight switch connects with the White pigtail wire from pin 86 of the Low Beam relay as well as the Blue pigtail wire from pin 87 of the Holdover Relay. (3 wires connected total)
- The high beam wire from the vehicle's headlight switch connects with the White pigtail wire from pin 86 of the High Beam relay as well as the White pigtail wire from pin 86 of the Holdover Relay. (3 wires connected total).
- The ground wire from the vehicle's headlight switch connects with the Black pigtail wire from pin 85 of the Low Beam Relay, as well as the Black pigtail wire from pin 85 of the High Beam Relay, as well as the Black pigtail wire from pin 85 of the Holdover Relay. (3 wires connected total)
- The Red pigtail wires from pin 30 on all three relays' are all connected via a fused link directly to the battery. (Three red wires going directly to post on battery). The fuses are good, (tested with multimeter) and have continuity all the way through.
- The Yellow pigtail wire from the central pin 87 on the Low Beam Relay connects to one side of the passenger 9006 low beam bulb.
- The Blue pigtail wire from the outer pin 87 on the Low Beam Relay connects to one side of the driver 9006 low beam bulb.
- The Yellow pigtail wire from the central pin 87 on the High Beam Relay connects to one side of the passenger 9005 high beam bulb.
- The Blue pigtail wire from the outer pin 87 on the High Beam Relay connects to one side of the driver 9005 high beam bulb.
- The ground wire from all four bulbs are currently tied together and all connected to the negative post on the battery.

Does this all look right? I'm at a loss as to why no low beam and high beam together when I put the brights on. Perhaps something to do with the Ford multifunction stalk that pushes, pulls, and sits neutral? Or maybe a high beam low beam relay attached to it from Ford under the dash?

I'd like us to see well and be safe on side roads where no one is out there and wanted all four bulbs on at once when I enable high beams.

Dave

 

[Diver300]

Can you draw out the circuit? It's quite difficult to follow a worded description anything other than the simplest of circuits.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

In essence:

Use relay 1 contact to switch power to low beam lamps.

Also use relay 2 contact to switch power to the low beam lamps.

Use relay 3 contact to switch power to the high beam lamps.

Drive relay 1 coil from the switch (or old wiring) low beam power.

Drive relay 2 coil from the switch high beam power.

Drive relay 3 coil from the switch high beam power as well.


Relays 1 & 3 are the "real" low & high beam, relay 2 powers then low beam when high beam is on.

 

[nehuge]

When you say "contact to switch power", and then "drive relay coil"... what do you mean?

These are relays that have #30 pin (12v battery), #85 pin (ground), #86 pin (power), and #87 pin (output to bulbs).

 

[rjenkinsgb]

30 and 87 are the contact, the "switch" part.

85 and 86 are the electromagnet coil, that operates the switch.

So, eg. for relay 1:
30 is fed from the battery and 87 goes to the low beam lamp, so the relay contact is switching power on & off to the lamp.

86 connects to the original low beam power wire from the light switch, & 85 to ground.
That mean the relay coil is operated by the low beam switch power.

Relay 1 coil is then driven by the low bean switch and controls the low beam light.


Relay 3 is the same, except everything is for the high beam side of things, switch and lamp.

Relay 2 is what you call the holdover one.

86 on that is also connected to the HIGH beam switch wire, like relay 3; but 87 on that goes the LOW beam lamp, like 87 on relay 1.

That means low beam is also on any time high beam is.

 

[nehuge]

30 and 87 are the contact, the "switch" part.

85 and 86 are the electromagnet coil, that operates the switch.

So, eg. for relay 1:
30 is fed from the battery and 87 goes to the low beam lamp, so the relay contact is switching power on & off to the lamp. Done.

86 connects to the original low beam power wire from the light switch, & 85 to ground. Done.
That mean the relay coil is operated by the low beam switch power. ok

Relay 1 coil is then driven by the low bean switch and controls the low beam light. ok


Relay 3 is the same, except everything is for the high beam side of things, switch and lamp. Done.

Relay 2 is what you call the holdover one. ok

86 on that is also connected to the HIGH beam switch wire, (so need specifics, are you saying 86 on Relay 2 connects to 86 on Relay 3? Or is it 86 on Relay 2 connects to 87 on Relay 3? Or is it 86 on Relay 2 connects to the light switch high beam wire from the vehicle?) like relay 3; but 87 on that goes the LOW beam lamp, like 87 on relay 1.

That means low beam is also on any time high beam is. ok

Rjenkinsgb:
My inputs in bold here, your thoughts?

Dave

 

[rjenkinsgb]

86 on that is also connected to the HIGH beam switch wire, (so need specifics, are you saying 86 on Relay 2 connects to 86 on Relay 3? Or is it 86 on Relay 2 connects to 87 on Relay 3? Or is it 86 on Relay 2 connects to the light switch high beam wire from the vehicle?) like relay 3; but 87 on that goes the LOW beam lamp, like 87 on relay 1.


86 on relay 2 connects to 86 on relay 3, so both relays switch on when high beam is selected on the switch.

87 on relay 2 connects to 87 on relay 1, to feed power to the low beam lamps.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

This all getting VERY complicated

What's wrong with a simple rectifier (with a switch in series to turn it ON and OFF), connected between the two relay coils, so that the main beam relay feeds through the rectifier to power the dip beam relay - something like a 1N5400 would be fine.

 

[nehuge]

86 on that is also connected to the HIGH beam switch wire, (so need specifics, are you saying 86 on Relay 2 connects to 86 on Relay 3? Or is it 86 on Relay 2 connects to 87 on Relay 3? Or is it 86 on Relay 2 connects to the light switch high beam wire from the vehicle?) like relay 3; but 87 on that goes the LOW beam lamp, like 87 on relay 1.


86 on relay 2 connects to 86 on relay 3, so both relays switch on when high beam is selected on the switch.

87 on relay 2 connects to 87 on relay 1, to feed power to the low beam lamps. you mean 87 on relay 2

 

[nehuge]

86 on that is also connected to the HIGH beam switch wire, (so need specifics, are you saying 86 on Relay 2 connects to 86 on Relay 3? Or is it 86 on Relay 2 connects to 87 on Relay 3? Or is it 86 on Relay 2 connects to the light switch high beam wire from the vehicle?) like relay 3; but 87 on that goes the LOW beam lamp, like 87 on relay 1.


86 on relay 2 connects to 86 on relay 3, so both relays switch on when high beam is selected on the switch.

87 on relay 2 connects to 87 on relay 1, to feed power to the low beam lamps.

Yes........yes....... YES! I Meg Ryan'd it when it worked! I feel like I owe ya some Paypal for beer, seriously. I've been asking different forums for weeks!

Thanks for your patience, I now understand it a little bit better and will be more comfortable with relays in the future!


Dave from Oregon

 

[rjenkinsgb]

Great stuff!

Just be sure all the wiring feeding power to the relays and on to the lamps is heavy enough, as running four filament type headlamp bulbs at the same time could be taking anything from 20 - 25A or so.

It could end up overheating the wiring after a while if eg. all fed from a single wire intended to only run high or low beam at any one time.

If each relay has a separate feed to 30, with wire rated at 20A or more, that's fine.

(Wires in harnesses or bundles etc. rather than open air should only be run at up to about half their basic current rating, as heat builds up rather than dissipating).


Edit - sorry I think you already have that covered, as each relay 30 is a separate battery wire.

 

[nehuge]

Great stuff!

Just be sure all the wiring feeding power to the relays and on to the lamps is heavy enough, as running four filament type headlamp bulbs at the same time could be taking anything from 20 - 25A or so.

It could end up overheating the wiring after a while if eg. all fed from a single wire intended to only run high or low beam at any one time.

If each relay has a separate feed to 30, with wire rated at 20A or more, that's fine.

(Wires in harnesses or bundles etc. rather than open air should only be run at up to about half their basic current rating, as heat builds up rather than dissipating).


Edit - sorry I think you already have that covered, as each relay 30 is a separate battery wire.

Yes I have like 10 or 8 gauge wire (3 of them) separately connected to the 30's to each relay, (relays rating say 40a/30 I think) with an inline fuse an inch or so before the battery from each of the three 10 or 8 gauge wires.

It is 14 gauge wire on the pigtail connectors coming from the relays.

They are going to be LED lights, and each pair is 60 watts (actually a tad less) so let's say 25 a bulb, so 100 watts.
At 12 volts that's 10 amps right?

And 14 gauge wire handles 15 amps right?

I'm not gonna be running my brights constantly or all the time. Going to avoid driving at night as best I can. It's really for if schedule slips and we end up pulling into campsites at night and making it like the frickin' sun.

But like you're saying hopefully all the separate relays and fuses do it.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

That all sounds to be spot on, 14 gauge is good for 15A in a three wire bundle so no problem at all!

 

[nehuge]

That all sounds to be spot on, 14 gauge is good for 15A in a three wire bundle so no problem at all!

Now that RV headlights are wired, I'd like to tow our car behind it. I have hooked up the 7 pin trailer connector on the back of the RV and also a 6 pin on front of the car. Ran wires through the car.

My RV had four wires/pins on its old hitch 1) right/brake (stop) 2) left/brake (stop) 3) tail lights (markers) 4) ground

Got it wired correctly, and my car is the type with red brake bulbs and markers, but separate amber bulbs.
I'd like it to work where the ambers flash just like when the car is driving alone. I bought this tail light converter which is called a "2 to 3 wire" converter. The converter on one side call input has 3 wires called "left/brake", "right/brake" and ground. The output side has "left", "right" and "brake. I thought I hooked it up correctly but it acts strangely. The amber turn signals work, but as soon as I touch the brakes on the RV, the dash/instrument lights on the RV light up. I thought this was backfeed but still acted that way after putting a diode in. Even putting the hazards on in the RV only makes the 'red' bulbs on my car flash but the kinda double flash and the RV instrument panel again flashes with it.

Anybody have a way to wire this wire by wire, in detail to where I can see what I am doing wrong?

 

[rjenkinsgb]

Answered in your new thread.