School Terrorist warning Project

[markelectro]

Hello
My Aunt who works for a local School told me of a question their headmaster had posed to all of the staff. The question was to think of a silent warning solution to warn the staff of a possible Terrorist attack, seems that all schools have to come up with their own solutions. The idea behind silent is to prevent mass panic from the students. My Aunt works for children around the age of 5 years so you can imagine why they have to keep the warning as calm as possible.

When she asked I obviously thought that the Electronic solution would be best. One idea I cam up with was-

All the staff would have Key fobs that could be discreetly activated when required. The fob would then transmit to a central point, say the headmasters and reception desks. The warning panel at each desk would be able to show who had pressed their fob.

The idea behind this is to get as many students out of the building as possible.

I would ask all the members if they could point me to a tutorial maybe or if possible point me in the right direction to be able to get this running so I can put a demo to the school.
Any advice will be much appreciated.

My last words will be about the Governments involvment (or the lack of it)asking Schools to come up with their own individual solutions and funding to this problem,seems a bit of a cop-out to me,(that's if what I'm told is right)

Many thanks and hope you can help me.Mark

 

[ericgibbs]

hi markelectro,

As we dont know the country you are posting from, it makes it difficult to give a meaningful response.

In some public buildings within the UK, when there is any risk to the public due to fire/explosion, in public places, a pre-arranged piece of music is played over the loudspeaker intercom system. This is warns the staff to prepare the public for evacuation.

Perhaps a simple solution like this would work for your Aunt's school??

 

[markelectro]

hi markelectro,

As we dont know the country you are posting from, it makes it difficult to give a meaningful response.

In some public buildings within the UK, when there is any risk to the public due to fire/explosion, in public places, a pre-arranged piece of music is played over the loudspeaker intercom system. This is warns the staff to prepare the public for evacuation.

Perhaps a simple solution like this would work for your Aunt's school??

Eric
I am in the uk.
A simple solution you suggest and seem it could do the job. What makes that suggestion a little hard to use is we have to try and give each teacher a way of giving out the warning and I think your first suggestion could be a little hard to initiate. They are thinking that an attack by Terrorists or a madman could attack from anywhere in the school.
Might seem a bit of over kill but the staff have been asked to come up with solutions.
The School budget would have to pay for it so less work would be good so I thought of using RF.signals from the Key fobs???

Regards Mark

 

[ericgibbs]

hi Mark,
I would suspect that 'key fob' transmitters may not have the range, especially thru walls/floors.
It is possible to transmit data/alarms via the internal electrical wiring of a building. [ same phase] so, perhaps a 'key fob' short range transmitter to a receiver unit plugged into the mains within the classroom, that would connect with central alarm system.

 

[markelectro]

hi Mark,
I would suspect that 'key fob' transmitters may not have the range, especially thru walls/floors.
It is possible to transmit data/alarms via the internal electrical wiring of a building. [ same phase] so, perhaps a 'key fob' short range transmitter to a receiver unit plugged into the mains within the classroom, that would connect with central alarm system.

Eric
sounds intriguing.Perhaps this is the way to go!!
Where would I start with such a project,can somone point me to a tutorial or schematics to try and get somthing running?

Regards Mark

 

[jpanhalt]

There is a lot of information on short-range, key-fob RF links. One place to start is: https://www.linxtechnologies.com/
You can also try the datasheet links in various electronic catalogs, such as DigiKey. As ericgibbs mentions, range is an issue. Also, susceptibility to hacking is another.

You comment to the effect that "if what I am told is right." I think that is a critical issue and wonder if the mandate is not more to discuss potential evacuation or notification plans than to develop a warning system per se.

We had a hostage situation at a university where I worked. Assume there had been a warning system in the building. What should the proper response have been? For example, should one try to evacuate or barracade themselves. The answer to that question requires informed insight, not suppositions. Children locked in a classroom might be far safer than in the hallway trying to get to an exit. So, part of the plan may be to ensure that interior doors have locks, windows open (?), two-doors in every room with students, etc.

In my experience, when we were faced with developing similar plans (such as for chemical spills, biological releases, etc.) a large amount of information came about very quickly. What we were expected to do was to analyze that material and apply it to the particular or unique situations in our workplace. John

 

[ericgibbs]

hi Mark
As John points out the recent very sad case in a US college, its probably better to have rehearsed plans for these types of incidents.

I have found a site that could be helpful in finding the hardware, do you plan to build or buy??

**broken link removed**

 

[markelectro]

There is a lot of information on short-range, key-fob RF links. One place to start is: https://www.linxtechnologies.com/
You can also try the datasheet links in various electronic catalogs, such as DigiKey. As ericgibbs mentions, range is an issue. Also, susceptibility to hacking is another.

Jpanhalt
Many thanks for that I will defo take a look and see what can be gained from the links.

You comment to the effect that "if what I am told is right." I think that is a critical issue and wonder if the mandate is not more to discuss potential evacuation or notification plans than to develop a warning system per se.

You are right it is a critical issue and I say does need to be sorted.I think the reasoning behind the warning is firstly not to put mass fear and pannick into the students, in my Aunts school these kids are around 5 years.
Secondly like you rightly said to give a warning of a possible attack so steps can be taken to either barricade in or to evacuate parts of the building to minamise risk.This is quite a question to be asked of teachers and my thoughts was that the rf keyfobs would act as a message to set procedures into place.

We had a hostage situation at a university where I worked. Assume there had been a warning system in the building. What should the proper response have been? For example, should one try to evacuate or barracade themselves. The answer to that question requires informed insight, not suppositions. Children locked in a classroom might be far safer than in the hallway trying to get to an exit. So, part of the plan may be to ensure that interior doors have locks, windows open (?), two-doors in every room with students, etc.

Of course I think that this part of the scenario would be derived from government advice taken from stats.Big question is what's right or wrong in these situations.Dun't quite know myself!!!

In my experience, when we were faced with developing similar plans (such as for chemical spills, biological releases, etc.) a large amount of information came about very quickly. What we were expected to do was to analyze that material and apply it to the particular or unique situations in our workplace. John

Even at my work we have procedures for Fires and injury and I am both Fire safety/prevention and First aider I would have never thought we would require to have procedures in Schools for Terroist attack.But due to recant events it's now a must.

Many thanks for the reply Mark

 

[markelectro]

hi Mark
As John points out the recent very sad case in a US college, its probably better to have rehearsed plans for these types of incidents.

I have found a site that could be helpful in finding the hardware, do you plan to build or buy??

**broken link removed**

Erric
I think at the moment I would like to build!!
So your idea for longer range taking advantage of the already in place wiring.
So to break down what I am looking for-

Fob transmitters info
Plug in device to carry the signal around the School wiring
Small Panel that would receive the signal.

I am thinking that the panel would have simple info on it maybe in the form of led's just to show what fob had been activated so the receiver could make plans for a response.

Regards Mark

 

[jbarnaby2000]

Mark,
I work in a Community College here in New Mexico and while we are far away from the Virginia Tech situation....we are still feeling its effects. We were posed the same questions as your aunt was as well.... and I really like the Key FOB as a solution too....but I was thinking in a situation like that...alarms going off...and who knows what is going on...maybe a key FOB to report a problem to a central security location and then all teachers are issued a text pager... So if a situation occurs... The teacher will be informed as to what is happening, where, and maybe secure exits available... I don't know...just a thought....

Jeff

 

[markelectro]

Mark,
I work in a Community College here in New Mexico and while we are far away from the Virginia Tech situation....we are still feeling its effects. We were posed the same questions as your aunt was as well.... and I really like the Key FOB as a solution too....but I was thinking in a situation like that...alarms going off...and who knows what is going on...maybe a key FOB to report a problem to a central security location and then all teachers are issued a text pager... So if a situation occurs... The teacher will be informed as to what is happening, where, and maybe secure exits available... I don't know...just a thought....

Jeff

Jeff
My thoughts entirely. The fob can't sound any alarms it is merely to create a warning so other Teachers can initiate a practiced response. My Aunt did say the Schools had to have a silent warning.

Have you any thoughts on how to construct this???

Thanks for the post and regards Mark

 

[TrevorP]

at my school they just go over the intercom and ask a ridiculous question...like "Would all teachers please check their thermostats?" or something like that.

Simple and seems innocent.

 

[jbarnaby2000]

at my school they just go over the intercom and ask a ridiculous question...like "Would all teachers please check their thermostats?" or something like that.

Simple and seems innocent.

but after they annouce that.... What do the teachers do?? Do they evacuate or do they stay in thier rooms?? and how do the other teachers know what the problem is??

 

[markelectro]

but after they annouce that.... What do the teachers do?? Do they evacuate or do they stay in thier rooms?? and how do the other teachers know what the problem is??

Also how would a teacher that is under attack raise the alarm!!??
I think my solution with the fob using Erics idea of transferring the RF. signal through the wiring to a panel is a good one.

Thanks for the input, but perhaps your school needs to think a little deeper . again going back to my Aunt's school request of a silent alarm.

Please help with tips on how to contsruct!!



Regards Mark

 

[jbarnaby2000]

Also how would a teacher that is under attack raise the alarm!!??
I think my solution with the fob using Erics idea of transferring the RF. signal through the wiring to a panel is a good one.

Thanks for the input, but perhaps your school needs to think a little deeper . again going back to my Aunt's school request of a silent alarm.

Please help with tips on how to contsruct!!



Regards Mark

I agree....the fob idea would work the best... and I guess you are saying if anyone hits thier FOB the whole silent alarm would go off.... Or are you thinking that each room would have its own FOB, meaning that that fob is addressed to that room in particular, you know where the alarm is to right?? So each fob would have to have its own address on the that particular system... as for how to contruct...well I am still thinking on that... I am thinking it is something like the alarm companies already have with many systems they sell in that the homeowner would press thier fob that they have hanging around thier neck and that would alert the security company and they would send someone out to investigate.... but I am not quite sure how that works... and if you have two houses right next to each other, or apartments, and each has that same system, how would the alarm company know which place to go.... it seems like they would have to be matched to thier system somehow...

 

[TrevorP]

Ohh yeah we also have panic buttons on the wall...forgot to mention that...basically they press it...I assume a small buzzer goes off in the main office and an LED might light up for the classroom location...then the principal will call and ask or send someone...

 

[markelectro]

I agree....the fob idea would work the best... and I guess you are saying if anyone hits thier FOB the whole silent alarm would go off.... Or are you thinking that each room would have its own FOB, meaning that that fob is addressed to that room in particular, you know where the alarm is to right?? So each fob would have to have its own address on the that particular system... as for how to contruct...well I am still thinking on that... I am thinking it is something like the alarm companies already have with many systems they sell in that the homeowner would press thier fob that they have hanging around thier neck and that would alert the security company and they would send someone out to investigate.... but I am not quite sure how that works... and if you have two houses right next to each other, or apartments, and each has that same system, how would the alarm company know which place to go.... it seems like they would have to be matched to thier system somehow...

Cheers!!
Yea I'm thinking that each room would have the fob this way they would know where to avoid or send a response team.This application could also work for the Violent students.
My anunt's School has around seven class rooms but the system would be able to be expnded on.

Mark

 

[Hero999]

All the teachers could just carry mobile phones, if there's a terrorist warning the head teacher could just bulk send a warning text message to all the phones.

 

[markelectro]

All the teachers could just carry mobile phones, if there's a terrorist warning the head teacher could just bulk send a warning text message to all the phones.

Hero999
Thanks for the response but I think it would be hard for a teatcher in trouble to send a text,also keeping it instant and descreat is the key.

mark

 

[Hero999]

Isn't there a way to program it to send a canned text message?

Alright may be not mobile phones but what about PDAs?

Some even use the Linux operating system which is open source so I'm sure there's a way to hack it so when a certain key combination a canned text message is sent to all the other phones.

What about walkie talkies?

Some have a morse code function which could be used a an SoS function.