Shifter Solenoid Motorcycle

Reloadron said:

You have Harleys so what is your take? Someone put a heel shifter on my bike and I keep wanting to remove the thing. I hate it. You use your heel to up shift and toe to down shift. Damn thing just gets in the way of my heel and I never use the feature.

Ron

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That sounds a really horrible idea?, wonder who thought that up?.

Presumably people with low performance bikes where fast changing isn't an issue

For many years I could remember every single gear change going to work in a morning, and there were a LOT for what was a fairly short commute (just measured it, it was 5.5 miles). From what I can remember it was something like 140-160 gear changes, but I got there in a seriously short time

One thing that does stick in my mind, is that sandstone weighs 2.5 tons per cubic metre - an early part of the route was up a steep (one in six), twisty and narrow hill - and I often used to meet a LARGE digger reversing down carrying huge stones in it's bucket, from the top quarry down to the bottom quarry. Think bend in the middle digger, that can carry a car in it's bucket.

I used to see the driver in the pub at nights, and he often said "one morning you aren't going to make it, I'm going no where, and the buckets full of stone weighing 2.5 tons per cubic metre, I wouldn't even notice you're smeared yourself under the machine" - never had an actual issue, but high speed and fast reflexes seemed to sort the issue.

Yes, I thought about a Heel shifter because the prob I have is Up shifting, my foot doesn't behave like it should using the muscles to tilt it up, so just Rocking to down shift seems plausible. Will experiment.
Sounds like the Bucket Driver has a thing about Motorcycles like so many questionable ignorant multiple Standard Deviations (Bell Curve).

Reloadron said:

You have Harleys so what is your take? Someone put a heel shifter on my bike and I keep wanting to remove the thing. I hate it. You use your heel to up shift and toe to down shift. Damn thing just gets in the way of my heel and I never use the feature.

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Never rode a bike that had the heel or rocker shifter, but know a guy that has one and he loves it. But think it would take some getting used to.

Nigel Goodwin said:

When he came out his leg would hardly bend at all, so he fitted a sidecar on an Aerial 500 he had, and converted it to hand gear change. Simply saw the end off the foot change, drill a hole through the end, and pivot a steel rod through the hole. Run the rod up to the tank, and have a lever and pivot there, easy peasy

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That would only work for a trike or the sidecar rig. Without either of those how would you shift and clutch at the same time?

Older Harley's had tank shifters but they also had foot clutches, so they could be shifted by hand. Pancho144 would that work for you? The thing I can see wrong with a solenoid shifter is finding neutral, but the newest Harley I have is a 1989 dresser, and neutral is still a problem to find, but not near as bad as my 2 Panheads.

shortbus= said:

Older Harley's had tank shifters but they also had foot clutches,

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Also known as a suicide clutch.

shortbus= said:

That would only work for a trike or the sidecar rig. Without either of those how would you shift and clutch at the same time?

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You'd have to reach across the tank and shift with your right hand.

shortbus= said:

That would only work for a trike or the sidecar rig. Without either of those how would you shift and clutch at the same time?

Older Harley's had tank shifters but they also had foot clutches, so they could be shifted by hand. Pancho144 would that work for you? The thing I can see wrong with a solenoid shifter is finding neutral, but the newest Harley I have is a 1989 dresser, and neutral is still a problem to find, but not near as bad as my 2 Panheads.

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Hand gear change was common place before foot change appeared, sidecar or solo - and didn't use the same sequential system as a foot change. Obviously my friends conversion just used a hand actuator on a foot mechanism, so gave sequential gears.

Here's an example:


As with the pre-foot change motorbikes of most kinds, you simply pulled the clutch in with your left hand, and changed gear with your right hand - on old British bikes (like the Aerial 500) foot gear shift was on the right. But if it was on the left, it wouldn't take much mechanical skill to transfer it across to the right.

I can see how finding neutral would be an issue with a solenoid system?, it's always been a bit tricky on foot changes anyway A lot easier once they started fitting neutral indicators on bikes though.

crutschow said:

You'd have to reach across the tank and shift with your right hand.

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crutschow said:

Also known as a suicide clutch.

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The "suicide clutch" name was because if you had to stop on a hill you couldn't put both feet down to stop from rolling, either up or down hill.

The shift with the right hand sounds good but doesn't work out too well. You need to work the throttle too while you shift. My 57 pan had at one time, I found out when stripping it to paint a hand shift. The foot shift came in in 1952 but the hand shift was still available until 1965 from the factory if ordered that way. Panheads were always my favorite Harley.

shortbus= said:

The "suicide clutch" name was because if you had to stop on a hill you couldn't put both feet down to stop from rolling, either up or down hill.

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Thus the name "suicide".

Ron

shortbus= said:

The "suicide clutch" name was because if you had to stop on a hill you couldn't put both feet down to stop from rolling, either up or down hill.

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Also if you were waiting at a light and got off balance that you needed to put your clutch foot down, you would suddenly find yourself in cross-traffic (unless the engine stalled).

shortbus= said:

You need to work the throttle too while you shift.

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You close the throttle, remove your hand to do the shift, then reopen the throttle.
Not very fast, but it works.

shortbus= said:

The "suicide clutch" name was because if you had to stop on a hill you couldn't put both feet down to stop from rolling, either up or down hill.

The shift with the right hand sounds good but doesn't work out too well. You need to work the throttle too while you shift. My 57 pan had at one time, I found out when stripping it to paint a hand shift. The foot shift came in in 1952 but the hand shift was still available until 1965 from the factory if ordered that way. Panheads were always my favorite Harley.

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Hand change worked fine, all bikes used to be that way - and I've ridden a few old bikes with hand change - it's a bit 'different', but you soon get used to it - a lot easy than the silly foot clutch on old Harleys

crutschow said:

You close the throttle, remove your hand to do the shift, then reopen the throttle.
Not very fast, but it works.

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Yeah, perfectly fine and normal - but I wouldn't have made it to work as fast with a hand change, or a foot clutch

For example, leaving my parents home, the short drive (<100metres?) up the street would be 1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1 - with a hand change (or a foot clutch) I suspect it would have been 1

On a similar theme, in later years I had a Yamaha DT400 trail bike, 400cc two stroke - so it was pretty nippy, although not a high top speed (it'd hit 80mph, but that's pretty scary on tires rated at 60mph). Anyway, one day I'd been to buy some two stroke oil (it went in it's own tank), and as I pulled out from the right heading back to work, a Norton Commando pulled out from the left just in front of me - and he headed in to town the short distance towards the roundabout.

So I was right behind him, and close behind him - so could see (and hear) everything he did - which was nothing - I went 1, 2, 3, 4 and wasn't catching him, he just casually stayed in bottom gear and blipped the throttle once

Well, lotsa good comments an advice I think, and thanks for all the info. You's are great Forum buds. Now, I'm consider'n a Voice Controlled Pneumatic/Hydraulic Shifter using a Foreign obscure language like maybe Sanskrit, or a computer-generated number system.

I'd be tempted to forget the solenoid idea, as they take a lot of power to get long, high force movements and cannot be made small with those capabilities.

How about a couple of off-the-shelf high force metal geared radio control style servos?

Ones with 35Kg/cm torque are not all that expensive, eg.
(And even cheaper on ebay etc).

Could you use two of those as opposing "pushers" to operate the gearchange??
eg. For a gearchange, one or the other would move the appropriate amount to push the changer, pause briefly then move back clear again, so either could always push the changer either way.

Servos such as these can be controlled very simply by any small microcontroller, or even 555 timer ICs with a few added components.

As the exact position is precisely controllable, it would also be a lot easier to select neutral, if that is between two gears?
[My experience is mostly with British bikes & many decades ago.]

rjenkinsgb said:

I'd be tempted to forget the solenoid idea, as they take a lot of power to get long, high force movements and cannot be made small with those capabilities.

How about a couple of off-the-shelf high force metal geared radio control style servos?

Ones with 35Kg/cm torque are not all that expensive, eg.

FeeTech 180 Degrees Digital Servo 7.4V 35kg/cm FT5330M

Description FeeTech 180 Degrees Digital Servo 7.4V 35kg/cm FT5330M Gear type: Steel Limit angle: NO limit Bearing: Ball bearings Horn gear spline: 25T / 5.9 mm Horn Type: Plastic, POM The FeeTech 180 Degrees Digital Servo 7.4V 35kg/cm FT5330M offers a PA+Aluminum case and has an operating...

www.robotshop.com

(And even cheaper on ebay etc).

Could you use two of those as opposing "pushers" to operate the gearchange??
eg. For a gearchange, one or the other would move the appropriate amount to push the changer, pause briefly then move back clear again, so either could always push the changer either way.

Servos such as these can be controlled very simply by any small microcontroller, or even 555 timer ICs with a few added components.

As the exact position is precisely controllable, it would also be a lot easier to select neutral, if that is between two gears?
[My experience is mostly with British bikes & many decades ago.]

Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware that's never changed - and was no different for British bikes to any other countries. More modern bikes often include a 'neutral light' so you can confirm you're actually in neutral, and an old Suzuki I had even had a seven segment display to show what gear you were in.

While such 'toys' are quite nice, it still doesn't help you select neutral any easier - it just lets you know you're not there yet

It's a skill finding neutral, and as a biker you sooon learn the exact knack for the bike you're riding.

On me ancient Triumph 750 I'd go to second gear, angle my foot, lock it, and tap the Foot Peg with my heel.
worked most of the time. With the Sporty, I just hit the kill switch when I park, then shift to "N".
Of course, the gear indicator display is handy too.