No this isn't a homework assignment. My last homework assignment was 18 years ago. Then again my last physics class was 21 years ago, hence the post.
The goal is to design a system that works, select a sensor that will provide readings that are within the reasonable range. It isn't and doesn't have to be calibrated. The results will not be converted to engineering units. The impact detector is to help soccer players (kids learning) to kick the properly and accurately for the most power. The result will be 0-999 displayed on a 3 digit 7-segment display. The system will be using a 10-bit ADC and I will drop the last 25 counts to make it fit.
Now for the physics problems.
Problem #1.
Known: Soccer ball, size 4, weight about 0.45 kg.
Known: Free floating target 1 meter square of 3/8" plywood (about 4kg). [Yes free floating let's get the concept down first, then get complicated]
Unknown: Soccer ball velocity
Measurement: Acceleration of target (using Analog Devices ADXLxxxx chip, TBD)
Assume measurement A = 1 = 9.8m/s2
Target: F=mA = 4 * 9.8 = 39.2
Ball: Don't know A, can't use F=mA, assume constant v, use F=1/2*mV2 -> V=sqrt(2*F/m); where F=39.2 = sqrt(2* 39.2 / 0.45) = sqrt(174.2) = 13.2 m/s
According to the internet, this is a reasonable number. Question: Do I have the physics math correct?
Now get complicated:
Known: Soccer ball, size 4, weight about 0.45 kg.
Known: Target 1 meter square of 3/8" plywood (about 4kg), hanging by its top edge.
Unknown: Soccer ball velocity
Measurement: Acceleration of target (using Analog Devices ADXLxxxx chip, TBD)
Assume measurement A = 1 = 9.8m/s2
Target: F= ??
Ball = F=1/2mV2 then use F from the target above.
I'm thinking it needs the moment of inertia or some other factor. (Since I don't know where the force from the ball will be applied, I am going to assume the center).
How do I calculate F for the 1m square 4kg target hanging from the top edge and the force applied to the center?
Sorry, not a clue what this means.You will either to hang your target from an "infinitely long" beam to negate "where" on the target the ball hits
That's not going to happen as they will get destroyed when the ball hits them.or add some IR LED emitter/detector pairs to determine the position the ball hits.
No clue here, too.Alternatively, some sort of tortion spring system can also be rigged up so the spring(s) deflect the same no matter where the ball hits.
Probably not going to happen. Because it would have to be in 2D and in front of the target. Again, kids kicking a soccer ball, likely to get destroyed.Then, you will need to know how the ball deflects off of the target (drops dead, directly to the ground vs rebounding off of the target.
The target is the center, the sensor is in the center. Once the equations have been determined for the target, it can be determined how much effect hitting the target will have if the contact is at +0.4m or -0.4m from the center.If you have a free-hanging target, the ball will rebound harder if it hits the top and will drop dead if it hits the bottom.
The design of the target is known. 1 meter square of 3/8" plywood (about 4kg), hanging by its top edge.Once you decide on the design, the physics become much easier to calculate.
It is.Just hang your target board on reasonable length ropes or chains, rather than having a rigid hinge.
That way a hit near the top will still give a good deflection.
I did. But how do you determine if the results are reasonable?Then get an accelerometer module, attach to the back of the target and start taking readings. For something like that, it's easier to get data from practical experiments than try to over-think it.
That worked well indoors and failed miserably outside in real use (ie., in the sunlight). So back to the accelerometer...Personally, I'd measure the ball speed. A rigid frame (with a 1M hole) with a laser diode used to bounce up and down between two strip mirrors - top and bottom would enable you to accurately measure the speed. All sensors would be protected by being behind the board. You'd need to stop the ball bouncing back into the sensors but that shouldn't be too difficult - put a football/soccer net as a back stop.
Mike.
Yes. Both air filled and water filled. The indication on the 'net was water filled only works when laying horizontally as when hanging it becomes tear drop shaped and the water pressure varies. Air filled would work (didn't see that listed on the net) but would it burst when hit? Where would I get a bag large enough, strong enough, and cost effective to present a 1 square meter target and withstand an impact of 140 newtons (units?)?Have you considered something like a punchbag?, when it's struck (or hit by a ball) you could monitor the air forced out of it (for a non-sealed bag), or the internal pressure variation for a sealed bag.
Yes. Both air filled and water filled. The indication on the 'net was water filled only works when laying horizontally as when hanging it becomes tear drop shaped and the water pressure varies. Air filled would work (didn't see that listed on the net) but would it burst when hit? Where would I get a bag large enough, strong enough, and cost effective to present a 1 square meter target and withstand an impact of 140 newtons (units?)?
True. But very heavy and neither water or air filled.A punchbag takes an awful lot of punishment, although isn't usually 1meter wide (although is more than 1meter high).
True. But very heavy and neither water or air filled.
But as you mentioned, it is not wide enough.If it's filled with foam (to maintain it's shape) it's not heavy, and would work as an air filled bag - it's just another potential option.
According to my results, the peak acceleration detected was 122g. Using F=mA=1/2mv2 results in in the ball travelling at 146m/s. Somehow I don't think I can kick the ball 326 miles per hour.
But as you mentioned, it is not wide enough.
Why can't you just have someone take some good kicks at it and just use those numbers? The readout scale of 0-999 is arbitrary anyways and no one here has even talked about calculating the numbers for an on-center versus off-center hit which is even trickier. I don't think it's worth the effort when you can just build the system and then kick at it to calibrate some stuff in.
I did mention the 999 scale is the digital output of the 10 bit ADC with the last 25 counts dropped. I'm hoping the off-center distance makes little difference to the resulting values, but that can't be know without knowing the force equation for the target.Why can't you just have someone take some good kicks at it and just use those numbers? No one here has even talked about calculating the numbers for an on-center versus off-center hit which is even trickier. I don't think it's worth the effort when you can just build the system and then kick at it to calibrate some stuff in.
You never did mention if your 0-999 scale was just an arbitrary scoring or the actual ball speed. I can only assume the reason you seem so particular about things is that you want the actual ball speed. On the other hand, I don't see the speed of a soccerball needing to be anywhere 200 of anything, let alone 999 which makes me think you just want an arbitrary scale, because if it is to be an arbitrary rating you definitely do need need any of this. You just have some test kicks and qualitatively classify them arbitrarily for the computer.
How to you plan to get, setup, and power all this sh-stuff in the middle of a soccer field?How do you know the measurement you took with a ruler is reasonable? You take multiple readings and you also eyeball it based on your experience. Same thing here. Take multiple kicks, classify them all and look at their readings to see their median and variance. Then compare that to other types of kicks. If they result in clear groups, it's reasonable. If you want to associate the numbers with a ball speed, then have a speed gun when you perform the tests and punch in the speed for each reading. Then have the processor associate each peak acceleration with the speed and interpolate the curve. Or you could just have the system spit out the peak acceleration measured and write it down along with the measured ball speed and punch it into your PC and interpolate and curve fit it there. Then program that into the system.
What values are you interested in measuring? I have the weight, size, and design of the target, and the mass of the soccer ball and can measure the acceleration. Knowing the proper force equation for target will give one of two results.I agree, there's no need for absolute numbers, just relative ones - and even trying to do the maths is going to be wildly inaccurate anyway, as how do you measure most of the values in the first place?.
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