Stupid is as...

Hi,

Very rarely do i feel the need to point out something that is just so dumb that it cant be ignored.

In Pamplona, Spain during one day of the Running of the Bulls, an engineer was gored by a bull when he ended up underneath the animal and it got him in the leg with a horn. He was from Cherry Hill, New Jersey so that got my attention too. And his name? Deutsch (no kidding).

This is what our engineers are doing these days. Stupid really is as it does.

Perhaps you are mistaking the social drives that caused this man to exhibit such 'irrational behavior' with some link to his status as an engineer....

You might as well say an idiot can't be a genius (take savants as a case) and then say a well educated man is an idiot for trying to run with the bulls...

Hello,

Or perhaps i am not. If the social drive overtook the education then the education wasnt there to begin with (ie stupid is as stupid does).

MrAl said:

Hello,

Or perhaps i am not. If the social drive overtook the education then the education wasnt there to begin with (ie stupid is as stupid does).

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I don't recall education ever addressing stuipidity? - and I don't see why an engineer should be any different about wanting to run with the bulls to any other occupation?.

I can't say it's something I would ever do - but I can see the appeal, much as climbing, sky diving etc. - the appeal is in the danger.

I think running with the bulls and building a 12 foot tall Tesla coil are some how related. Electrons run a little faster.

(ie stupid is as stupid does).

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Life is like a box O' chocolates. Some look all right on the outside but they are really just nuts on the inside.

MrAl said:

Or perhaps i am not. If the social drive overtook the education then the education wasnt there to begin with (ie stupid is as stupid does).

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I disagree with this in the strongest possible way 'stupidity' as it is most often reflected in human action is a case of instinct/raw human emotional drive over common sense and strict knowledge of possibilities. Hormones and hardwired instincts still drive even the most intelligent of individuals regardless of their education.

This is one of the reasons I respect Einstein so much, his moral and philosophical viewpoints were very well grounded in what I consider appropriate. Also one of the reasons why I have a distaste for Richard Feynmen, as although his claim to fame is physics/mathmatics and I respect a lot of his philosophical standpoints from a moral perspective something about him rubs me the wrong way.

ronsimpson said:

I think running with the bulls and building a 12 foot tall Tesla coil are some how related. Electrons run a little faster.

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Aww but Ron! haven't you read any of the electron drift velocity threads on the forum? You'd know that's absolutely not true!

Sceadwian said:

Aww but Ron! haven't you read any of the electron drift velocity threads on the forum? You'd know that's absolutely not true!

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A spark is so much faster than I am that it does not mater how much faster.

Hi again,


Some interesting replies

Nigel:
I am not comparing an engineer to another profession here. I am simply saying that if he had the education he should have known the risk. Yes there is an appeal because of the sheer danger, and that's how many people wind up in bad situations really fast. Ask yourself how you know not to run with bulls be he doesnt. What i will do in return is ask myself if i think he will run with bulls again next year

Scead:
"Hormones and hardwired instincts still drive even the most intelligent of individuals regardless of their education."
And that is how we get larger scale illegal drug use (social pressures) and even racism. Education should and does help that, the lack of it does the opposite. Showing people why something is wrong helps them to know better in most cases.
I was drawing a case where an educated man could not figure out what a risk it was in the first place.
Im sure you've heard about the poor girl who caught that flesh eating disease with a fall from a zip lining event. Both hands cut off, one foot and one leg removed.

Yeah lets go zip lining right after we run with the bulls, see who dies first
Russian roulette anyone?

ronsimpson said:

I think running with the bulls and building a 12 foot tall Tesla coil are some how related. Electrons run a little faster.

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Electrons are a bit more predictable... cage everything up to ground and you're (supposedly) safe...

ronsimpson said:

A spark is so much faster than I am that it does not mater how much faster.

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Yep, you've definitely not read the electron drift velocity threads =)

ronsimpson said:

Electrons run a little faster.

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Electrons run in place, with AC the electrons involved in current transfer through a metallic conductor can be reasonable expected to be in the same approximate spot they were before the current flowed, regardless of how much current flowed or for how long. Energy is transferred not electrons, electrons just mediate the energy transferred.

If you start talking DC or ionized particle flow the scene changes, but still a human would travel more (generally). But a human being running from a bull (even for a few seconds) will travel a further distance relative to it's original starting point than any electron in any cable on earth from the current that's flowing through it. This is of course outside of the realm of particle accelerators (including CRT tubes)

Sceadwian, I get it, OK. I read the articles last time this came up. I have known this for years. Why did I say it that way?

Electrons fired through an electron gun in a CRT and electrons jumping from a Tesla coil, or across the sky, appear to be faster than I am. I understand, in a metallic conductor, electrons do not move much. The effect moves fast. I was just trying to make a fast joke with out stopping for pages to explain that electricity (or at least its effect) is fast and only under certain conditions do electrons move (much), example sparks in vacuum (CRT) and sparks in air (Tesla coil). And now I have to say I think air is more like a vacuum than a wire. In air an electron may only move from one molecule to another and not across the sky. And the electron that starts a spark is not the same one that end the spark.

I will go try to find a way of saying electricity (or something) moves faster than I do but the electron (depending on conditions) moves a very small amount.

For the next 6 hours I hope to move a very small amount.

Well maybe with next years running of the bulls they can through a few electrons where the sun doesn't shine in the bulls and they may just take a few more out in their travels. One can imaging after tazering a bull's balls it would be in one hell of a mood........

Sorry ron, I know this is the off topic forum, and I get the joke, but I can't let little statements like that go =) The day I found out how electron flow actually worked was a real flooring experience for me, very close to as important as the experience which got me into learning electronics when I found out how transformers actually transmitted power.

By the way I'm not so sure about the electrons in a Tesla coil spark, although the gap is closed with an intial actual true outreach of electrons once the conduction path forms and the plasma exists it acts more like a metallic conductor, I'm very fuzzy on that though cause I know very little about plasma (thanks for giving me something to spend some time on Wikipedia doing

Hi Sceadwian,

I am also thinking about Cu, air and vacuum.

I looked at Van de Graaff generator on Wikipedia and they talk about electrons moving to and from the belt and collecting on the collector then jumping through the air....and on and on.

How far apart are Cu molecules?
How far apart are air molecules?
I know how far apart a vacuum is. LOL

My thought: electrons move (or not move) in air in a way that is something in between metallic and a vacuum.

How far apart are Cu molecules?
How far apart are air molecules?

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Doesn't work like that.

True copper metal is a crystalline molecular structure with virtually no gaps (outside of crystalline irregularities) ... Air is a gas, you're comparing two things of such a different nature there is no direct comparison.. Molecules in a solid are directly connected to each other, in a gas they are not.

The point I think you're missing is that the primary discharge of a spark gap is not through air, the electron tendrils form through ionized air, but as the conduction path is established the primary current flows in the plasma that's created. That's why I say I'm a little fuzzy on the matter. Plasma physics is very far out there for me! Once something becomes a Plasma it is fluid like a gas, but it electrically behaves like a solid conductor, and there is no clear 'wall' for when this change takes place.

If I'm not mistaken one of the primary definition of plasma is that the electromotive force become dominate over gas flow kinetics which definitely put an arc discharge fully into the realm of plasma physics, not gas kinetic dynamics.

the original topic in this thread (running with bulls) reminds me of the old joke done by the 3 Stooges as well as the Marx Brothers.... "Doctor Doctor, it hoits when i do dis..." " Well, don't do dat..."

Doctor Doctor it hoits when I pay your bill................