The UK on the list of the worst places to be a child.

@ Ericgibbs

Did you live in SA? Have you moved to England? If so why?
I don't think I'll ever move oversee. I will probably never get used to talking English 24/7.

Number17 said:

@ Ericgibbs

Did you live in SA? Have you moved to England? If so why?
I don't think I'll ever move oversee. I will probably never get used to talking English 24/7.

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I spend 2 months every year in Eastern Cape down near PE, all being well I should be there early November until after Christmas.

Fawlty Towers was great. Shame there was only 12 episodes. Only Fools and Horses is my favourite UK comedy show.

ericgibbs said:

Its the parents responsiblity, not the schools, to ensure their children are taught good manners and what behaviour is expected from their children.

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I agree in theory but in practise I think a lot of a child's behaviour is determined by their peers rather than their parents.

Nigel Goodwin said:

It was Music Technology which considering she's an excellent musician, a qualified recording engineer, plays multiple instruments and sings, reads and writes music, and is an instructor for all kinds of music based activities at another school, is a bit disappointing

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I don't know about A-level but I knew people who got good grades in GCSE music but couldn't play an instrument or read music and others who got poor grades but were more musically talented. I've always considered music to be a Mickey mouse course rather than a real subject.

However, AS level results were poor, across the entire country, and the Music Tech teachers couldn't even suggest why the examiners were marking low.

This is only the second or third year the course has run, and it's produced disappointing results each year - from next year the course is been completely restructured, reducing the workload to about 20-25% what it is now.

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May be they want to put a downer on the people like me who don't have much respect for the qualification.

Melissa hasn't even been to a lesson for over a year, she didn't need a good result in it, as her offer from York was BBB (standard offer is AAB), so it was a really good offer. She got A's in Chemistry and Maths, and a B in Further Maths.

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Now those are hard subjects which are well-respected, good for her. I don't think anyones going to care about the D in silly music.

The league tables has been a disaster for all concerned, the school she was at got poor results, because they generally get the poorer performing kids, and also take the poorer kids from the higher performing schools because they get a better education there. Melissa left with 14 GCSE's, most of them A's - we had no problem with the school, and my wife is now a governor there.

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I couldn't agree more.

Most of this sounds similar to the general educational systems we have here. Some are better some are worse. The better ones seem to have a stronger interaction with the local community and parents.

Having parents that are in the educational system keeps me well informed of the overall status of how the general educational system works. Fortunately both my parents work in higher quality schools. They are schools that make a very active effort to keep the kids parents well informed of their children's behavior.

As far as qualifications of a person I have to agree with Hero999. I dont really care for them myself also. In some ways I know they are important but yet there are just getting to be too many meaningless pieces of paper attached to to many pointless or non relevant skills.
What I see are too many people with loads of paper work that says they are the best of the best but yet when it comes right down to applying those so called high skill levels they cant even compete with the lower than average in the real work environment.

A good honest rating is great if it means you are producing good honest results. Otherwise its time, money, and effort thats just wasted on meaningless paper.
For all I know the British problem could be nothing more than bad paper but still people with good honest capabilities are being turned out.
The certification system could be wrong but the people are right.

Nigel Goodwin said:

Incidently, today is A-level results day - Melissa got AABD - she's now got a confirmed place at York University doing a Masters in Chemistry

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I think everything in Ontario, Canada here is named after British towns/cities/regions. Everytime Nigel mentions a place, I think hey, that's right by me.... Oh wait.... no it isn't.

York University

colin mac said:

Fawlty Towers was great. Shame there was only 12 episodes.

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There was only 11 in Germany.

Mike.

Pommie said:

There was only 11 in Germany.

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Don't mention it!

Hero999 said:

I don't know about A-level but I knew people who got good grades in GCSE music but couldn't play an instrument or read music and others who got poor grades but were more musically talented. I've always considered music to be a Mickey mouse course rather than a real subject.

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Not Music, "Music Technology", which includes MIDI, recording, etc. and you HAVE to be able to play an instrument, as you have to both write, play and record various projects.

I don't know about A-level but I knew people who got good grades in GCSE music but couldn't play an instrument or read music and others who got poor grades but were more musically talented. I've always considered music to be a Mickey mouse course rather than a real subject.

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You should read the Book of Courtier by Castiglione.

the courtier is described as having a cool mind, a good voice (with beautiful, elegant and brave words) along with proper bearing and gestures. At the same time though, the courtier is expected to have a warrior spirit, to be athletic and have good knowledge of the humanities, classics and fine arts.

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The arts have been revered since the time of antiquity, the well rounded person is a person to admire. Music is not Mickey Mouse, as it rounds an individual. We should never deprive our children the opportunity to explore all the arts. I think Da Vinci would agree.

Mikebits said:

Mickey Mouse, as it rounds an individual. We should never deprive our children the opportunity to explore all the arts. I think Da Vinci would agree.

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I think you missed the point.

I wasn't referring to music in general but the GCSE music course.

Here in UK, there are many courses which don't have much respect from the academic community and are commonly known as Mickey Mouse subjects. I notice that Music Technology is not in the list to I may have been wrong about that.
Mickey Mouse degrees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your saying my Down hill Skiing, Canueing, Arts history, arts 101, arts 102, methods of business management, macro business 101, and about 8 other generals classes didn't have real applicable bearing on my EE degree and were mostly just fluff to get more money out of me?

NO WAY!

Lots of those courses sound fun and I hope you enjoyed them.

I found it rather interesting when I looked online for a definition of university the ones I read came up short.

If all you want to study is the curriculum in your field a university education is not for you.

A university education includes all the stuff tcmtech griped about. Their goal is to turn out well rounded educated people.

But why on earth did you take "art history". As a rule that is reserved** for art majors.

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EDIT ** Only taken by

Lots of those courses sound fun and I hope you enjoyed them.

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They were typically fun but pretty much an unneeded 2 years of a 4+ year degree. It did get me some very expensive books for my three shelf Library though! So at least I had something physical to show for my money and time wasted.

But why on earth did you take "art history". As a rule that is reserved** for art majors.

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They have loads of required open choice electives you need to fill in to get the necessary credit count relating to a degree. Why take a useless and hard 1 credit class when you can take a useless but easy 3 credit class for the same price?

When your paying out of your own pocket the time and required effort becomes a big motivator to fill in the useless fluff area with the cheapest and easiest useless fluff you can find.

Most of them were actually pretty fun and informative though!
Not worth the load of money spent but still not bad to take.

I tired to find this story, and instead I found a survey by US News that found my home-town, Huntsville-Madison, Alabama the 2nd best place to grow up in the US. This is a beautiful region of the country, as well as a great place to live. Man, I love it here. But since I have no job, I might have to work out of the area.

tcmtech said:

So your saying my Down hill Skiing, Canueing, Arts history, arts 101, arts 102, methods of business management, macro business 101, and about 8 other generals classes didn't have real applicable bearing on my EE degree and were mostly just fluff to get more money out of me?

NO WAY!

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Why on earth would a EE degree require 3 classes in arts and 2 in PE? Business is not even a GE, I think your adviser misguided you.

Well basically this is how our higher educational system works more often than not now adays.

Presently about 1/3 of your needed credits open general classes. You are required to have the credit hours but it does not actualy matter what you take. I just picked easy high credit hour stuff that would meet the open credit hours relating to the generals requirements.
Just as long as the total credit hour requirements are filled there is not any real purpose to them other than to get more money out of you.

On top of that there are typically several 'non required' but actually still needed classes you need to take also. That is the degree may say you need chemistry 101 102 and 201 to meet the chemistry requirement. However under the chemistry sub rules you must have chemistry 100 before you can even get into chemistry 101.

See how that works? Its not in the engineering requirement list but it still has to be taken to get into the actual class that is listed in the requirements.

Add in the overlapping required classes per semester that prevent you from ever being able to take the courses in the order they are listed to be taken and a 4 year degree is realistically more likely a 5 -6 year time investment before you have finished.
Math 103 and chemistry 102 are listed as to be taken the same semester by the book but yet all math 103 and chemistry 102 classes are happening ,always have happened, and will continue to happen at the exact same time slots on opposite ends of the campus. You are forced to delay one and place it in a later semester due to some well planned class overlaps relating to the most often required classes most students need.
That later placement then messes up the recommended course listings for that semester and the time and money invested snowball grows a bit bigger.

Basically what most people in higher education end up with is a primary degree in bureaucracy. The actual degree you were after is just a secondary degree and likely lacks the real educational material you needed to be successful in the field you had chosen to get the degree for any way.

I left college feeling that I got punked rather than educated.

We went to the same school but not at the same time.

I am not saying it is a perfect system. But it sounds like you skipped the high school classes you should have taken to prep yourself for engineering. Without that you can easily add an extra year.

Prepared engineering students take calc 190 as their first freshman math class.

When I was in school there were more then 1 or 2 sections of Calc 190 etc to choose from during any given term. If you stayed in sequence there were more.

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I even heard that some people in the UK pour echant around in the garden to kill plants, that cant be good for the environment or the children that play around it.