Times Table

Musicmanager said:

some of you will know, I'm a retired teacher ...

Bigoted and ill-informed comments from some members I have come to expect and ignore, however, when members, moderators even, who I have always valued and respected, start making the same kind of offensive remark such as prolificates this thread then it is time for me to find another source for my electronics interest.

I'm of the mind that this was the intention of the OP at the outset .. .. .. but since he walks on water at the moment .. .. .. .

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement .. disgusted is nearer ... ... but then ... .. who cares ?

S

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Obviously one of the 80%.

Here is my experience of teaching:

In our school, because I could walk on water, I was in the A stream so we had the best teachers. We had excellent Maths, Science, English Literature, and Metal Work teachers. The rest were average to very poor. In the third year the science teacher left and another character took his place. From that time on I never had a science lesson of any consequence and had to teach myself. The music teacher was a nasty piece of work- his lesson comprised of playing Grieg's Hall of the Mountain King. He did that in every music lesson while I was at the school. We had a whole load of teachers ejected for embezzlement and fiddling with the girls. The careers officer's only advice was to join the RAF or get a job in a bank. He could not answer a single question that I asked him.

One of the teachers went home and refused to return for six months. Some of the teachers did work late, notably the metalwork teacher who ran an evening class on Mondays and the Art Teacher who ran a basket weaving evening class mid week. But most did not.

We get two sessions of careers advice, one before the pre lims and one after the main exams. I have had my initial one.

I dont know if this is UK wide or purely in Academies like mine, but the career adviser sits with a laptop that has a program to work out your best choice of job, your asked alot of questions and all your test results are in the program.

I explained everything I liked doing and all my hobbies, I dont take Geography as it clashed with another subject, I know nothing about Geography! So 45 mins after the interview and a little whirring from the laptop hard drive I now know my best career choice would be........................... GEOGRAPHY TEACHER!!

I dont even own a jacket with patches on the sleeves! Maybe Geography Teacher is education code for engineer?

zahwi said:

You obviously know a lot about teaching and schools, to your opinion, how big is the part of parents in childred education?

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A HUGE part is played by the parents, you can tell the ones that work with and help their kids, even something as simple as listening to them read.

spec said:

In our school, because I could walk on water, I was in the A stream so we had the best teachers.

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In my school, which was a highly regarded Grammar School, the best teachers took the poorer classes - where they needed the better teachers. Top kids can be taught by anyone, or no one, my daughter and the other 'high achievers' went through Primary and Secondary with very little tuition, they didn't need it.

They are basically three types of kids:

1) Clever ones - you couldn't stop them been top of the class.
2) The middle - this is were most effort is usually concentrated.
3) The serious bottom - if you can get then toilet trained you've done well, but expect a relapse during the summer holidays (most money is probably spent on this group).

Harsh, but fairly true.

Nigel Goodwin said:

A HUGE part is played by the parents, you can tell the ones that work with and help their kids, even something as simple as listening to them read.
They are basically three types of kids:

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Just like all other professions, only 10% are good in parenthood.

Teach should also tel1 students that the digits of th 9x table add up to 9.
1x9 = 9
2x9=18 ; 8+1=9
...
5x9=45; 4+5 =9
..
9x10 = 90; 9+0 = 9

This also means you can do the table on your fingers. for 3 x 9, push down the 3rd finger. It then represents 27
For 6*9; put down the 6th finger -- 54

I used to always get 54, 56, 63 and 64 all messed up with the tables. Now, I don't.

That is so last century (Rules of 9). All you need to know today is that "9" is in the upper right of the keypad. What's a keypad? Well he is over on another forum right now.

BTW, when volunteering at a local college to teach chemistry, I had a student -- straight A, top 5% of her class -- who couldn't multiply 30x2 in her head without reaching for her calculator. It is not ignorance, it is how they are trained to solve problems. I quickly grabbed her calculator, and she could do the math in her head. She was a bit surprised by my action. We both laughed about it later.

To you (KISS) and me, our generation wouldn't think of using a calculator for that problem. We have to get over the barrier of what someone has trained modern students to do and what they actually can do.

John

You know, I think the calculator way is the best, provided the student knows the rules and could do the maths in her head if really required. Why do I say this, simply because it reduces errors. Even for a simple circuit you may do hundreds of calculations and using a calculator, or computer reduces the errors.

At one time we had to calibrate AC potentiometers and check the output every 0.1 degrees of a dividing head. Each measurement required a simple calculation to get a value to put on a graph. This exercise was almost impossible without a calculator. Also when you get into more complex functions only a calculator will do.

I find that when grocery shopping, I have to sometimes do some estimation because you have to spend >$50 to be able to use some of the coupons.

I don;t do it in my head, but minimize the amount of calculations.

I have two colums. One is the price to the next dollar and the other is the amount to the next dollar

If something is $1.99 ;$2.00 goe sin the left and 1 goes in the right
Then I pick up something that's 149, so 2 in the left and 51 in the right
But really I end up with
4.00 in the left and 51 in the right
When i get greater than 100 in the right, $1.00 gets subtracted from the left

The total order is the left - right/100

But I don;t have to add all of the stuff.

All I have to do is get close and that;s when I quit.
I just add the dollars and cents in different columns and don't let the second column get more than 100.
100-x is easy to do in your head.

At least I don't do what my boss said he did while driving on a trip. He prime factored license plate numbers in his head.
He also was able to play chess with the board unseen in his head with an opponent while doing dishes.
The Rubik's cube was cake for him.


It's always nice to be able to do "order of magnitude" calculations in your head.

I agree. I played chess with my father beginning in the second grade. Much better than a television situation-comedy or fake reality show. Of course,we didn't have TV either.

John

I played chess with a grade school class mate over the phone, but we both had boards.

Some of my college professors were really unique:

Students: Are we going to have a test soon?
Teach: You don't know anything yet! He taught buildings and structures and how to size HVAC systems.

I loved the Thermodynamics teach that gave tests that were part open and part closed book. I wish math was done the same way.
Always take math courses from engineers moonlighting as teachers.

Then there was the "take out a sheet of paper" guy. In one class you could have 3 quizzes that were instantly corrected by your neighbor. It could be 1 to 5 problems.
The class was 1.5 hours. You had better read the assignment.

The same guy created a competition. In every lab class your were given your rank in the class. The histogram of how you stood.

He also made you analyze the data of ALL of the other lab groups to basically see how it matched yours. That was lots of work.

KeepItSimpleStupid said:

Then there was the "take out a sheet of paper" guy. In one class you could have 3 quizzes that were instantly corrected by your neighbor. It could be 1 to 5 problems.
The class was 1.5 hours. You had better read the assignment.

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Interesting. I was one of those profs. I gave a quiz after almost every lecture. The students either graded each other or themselves (more frequently the latter). They, of course, turned them in, and I recorded whether the pop quiz had been done. But I did not record a grade per se. Instead, I visited with the students who seemed to have completely missed the point of the class. The students knew I cared about them learning, not just creating a grade sheet. Of the 4 sections in organic chemistry, my students always took the top 25% of the departmental examinations. I am not a good lecturer, but I could still connect one-to-one. That was in the 2006-2008 time frame, so it is not ancient history. Students are no worse today than when we were students, nor less motivated. They just need to know what is expected of them. I also wore a suit every day to class, unlike the Levis and tongue piercings of some of my colleagues.

John

Nigel Goodwin said:

A HUGE part is played by the parents, you can tell the ones that work with and help their kids, even something as simple as listening to them read.

Click to expand...

Nigel Goodwin said:

In my school, which was a highly regarded Grammar School, the best teachers took the poorer classes - where they needed the better teachers. Top kids can be taught by anyone, or no one, my daughter and the other 'high achievers' went through Primary and Secondary with very little tuition, they didn't need it.

They are basically three types of kids:

1) Clever ones - you couldn't stop them been top of the class.
2) The middle - this is were most effort is usually concentrated.
3) The serious bottom - if you can get then toilet trained you've done well, but expect a relapse during the summer holidays (most money is probably spent on this group).

Harsh, but fairly true.

Click to expand...

You have summed it up very well. Those are the problems and with the disruptive/won't learn pupils the teachers have an impossible task, especially as teachers powers to correct troublesome students have been outlawed by the PC brigade. Where I went to school was a farming area in Suffolk and the normal form was for the son to get working in the fields as soon as possible and the girls to get married as soon as possible. School was regarded, by both parents, as an oppressive and authoritarian organization that was always picking on their little Jimmy. I was head boy and got put into the same category as teachers by some parents. One of my mates came from a farming family and the first time I met his mum she was quite abusive. Later when she learned that I was not a very good head boy she was more friendly.

Having said all this though, there was no disruption in some teachers classes- why? Because they knew how to teach, didn't stand any nonsense, and befriended the pupils. One particular trouble-maker even told the other thugs to shut up and listen on one occasion. This chap was about 13 but looked 18 and was a bully. He was the alpha male in the school. After a while I got to know him quite well and asked him if he could keep an eye on a little lad with bad sight who was always being teased and bullied. Nobody ever bullied him again.

jpanhalt said:

Interesting. I was one of those profs. I gave a quiz after almost every lecture. The students either graded each other or themselves (more frequently the latter). They, of course, turned them in, and I recorded whether the pop quiz had been done. But I did not record a grade per se. Instead, I visited with the students who seemed to have completely missed the point of the class. The students knew I cared about them learning, not just creating a grade sheet. Of the 4 sections in organic chemistry, my students always took the top 25% of the departmental examinations. I am not a good lecturer, but I could still connect one-to-one. That was in the 2006-2008 time frame, so it is not ancient history. Students are no worse today than when we were students, nor less motivated. They just need to know what is expected of them. I also wore a suit every day to class, unlike the Levis and tongue piercings of some of my colleagues.

John

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You sound like my first science teacher- I learnt more from him in 3 terms that from his replacement in 12 terms. It was a sad day for me when Mr Riley left.

When you say that students are no different than they always were, you are dead right. The three schools that our son went to before university were well run by the headmasters (that is the key) and the teachers were excellent. There were plenty of trouble makers too, but they were stamped on immediately.

I remember one class where the teacher threw an eraser at a student, I think for falling asleep. I don't think anyone ratted as to who did it. It was just funny at the time. I think the class was informal anyway. Not even sure if it was a real class.

Our Woodwork teacher used to wack you around the side of the head at the slightest provocation- strange because he was a kindly old fudger. One day he messed this kids head up- there was one hell of a stink and from then on all corporal punishment was banned by the headmaster.

The last caning that I had was when a mate and I put explosive caps between the faces of the metal folding chairs used for assembly. We would go into the main hall each morning and stand and wait for the head to come in and address us. When he sat down, we sat down- you have never heard such a racket, 1000 caps all going off at the same time. The headmaster went manic and threatened loss of privileges for the whole school for a month if the culprits didn't own up.

We got five lashes on each hand and I can remember breaking the ice on a nearby pond to cool our hands down.

jpanhalt said:

Interesting. I was one of those profs.

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It is an amusing discovery for me that you worked as a teacher. It helps me understand your behavior in this forum. When someone steps out of line by breaking the forum rules within seconds you are there waving your book of rules. Also most of the time you speak like you are the top authority. I guess you were born to be a teacher.

spec said:

My understanding is that 20% are capable and do the work, this is true for design engineers just like any other profession.

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Pareto's principle is commonly cited for any number of situations.

Government interference could be the cause of some. Even with the move towards STEM, some will consider the government STEM requisites are interference.

Touting the "accomplishment" or "goal" of the multiplication table to 12 as an education breakthrough seems weak to those whose primary education was over 50 years ago. It has one wondering on how we got to where the past accomplishments are today's break through.