Trying to measure electrical energy

[J_Nichols]

I have built a circuit that sends electricity using only 1 wire.
The circuit works with a 12 VDC that is connected in the input of a Pulsed DC generator (freq = 30 Khz, duty cycle 50%). I connect the output of the PDC generator to the low voltage of a car ignition coil and in the HVoltage output of the coil I can get electrical energy using only 1 wire. Next, I connect the one wire to 2 diodes and a capacitor. With the energy of the capacitor I can run a small DC motor for very short period of time.

My question is.... how can I measure the wattage from the single-line energy transmission? I connect my multimeter and it comes crazy.

 

[MrAl]

Hi,

Can you show the circuit for us?

You can measure the available power by using a resistor. You may have to use various size resistors however. For example, if you can run a 1k resistor at 1v that's 1ma and 1mw of power. It may change if you use a smaller or larger resistor, so you might try 100k, 10k, 1k, 100, and 10 ohms for a few examples, and calculate the power for each of these. That would tell you what your 'generator' is capable of.

 

[ronsimpson]

I have been here before.
"One Wire" Electricity makes a loop. There is a return path. You might not see it but there is a return path. Air, ground, wire,.........some thing.
I know "HV" and "RF"! Thereis a return path for RF and HV. More information if you need it.

To measure power why don't you measure across your motor? Using two wires from your meter.

 

[J_Nichols]

Hi,

Can you show the circuit for us?

You can measure the available power by using a resistor. You may have to use various size resistors however. For example, if you can run a 1k resistor at 1v that's 1ma and 1mw of power. It may change if you use a smaller or larger resistor, so you might try 100k, 10k, 1k, 100, and 10 ohms for a few examples, and calculate the power for each of these. That would tell you what your 'generator' is capable of.

here you can find the "schematic" for the circuit.
**broken link removed**

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The original one I used was with 1KV 0.22uf capacitor and without the motor.
But you refer to use different resistors in the single-line? or after it where I have 2 wires?

I have been here before.
"One Wire" Electricity makes a loop. There is a return path. You might not see it but there is a return path. Air, ground, wire,.........some thing.
I know "HV" and "RF"! Thereis a return path for RF and HV. More information if you need it.

To measure power why don't you measure across your motor? Using two wires from your meter.

Can you explain me more where is the return path in that schematic because I don't know where it is.
Because I'm very curious about the characteristic properties of that wire. As far I know, the 2-wire configuration is 1 positive and 1 negative. But in only one wire..? The man of the electronic component shop said me that it's impossible to measure the potential difference in just only 1 wire.

So a big question is... in this wire is flowing just static energy or is it electromagnetic energy? Other?
I have also heard that using a similar technique (maybe the same) you can send some KWatt using only a very thin wire without burning it.

 

[Diver300]

The return path is the stray capacitance from the motor etc to ground.

Car ignition voltages are very large and have very fast rise time, so the energy can be transferred though tiny capacitances.

 

[crutschow]

I have also heard that using a similar technique (maybe the same) you can send some KWatt using only a very thin wire without burning it.

The amount of power you can send over a wire is simply equal to the voltage times the amps. So to send high power over a thin wire at low current so it doesn't burn, you just need a high voltage. Nothing special about that. That's why high power lines operate at several hundred thousand volts.

 

[ronsimpson]

I think you motor will run slow if it is suppended in air.
If you hold it in you hand it will run much faster.
You are going to get knocked on your ass.
I bet 1% of the power is making it to the motor.

 

[carbonzit]

I think you motor will run slow if it is suppended in air.
If you hold it in you hand it will run much faster.
You are going to get knocked on your ass.
I bet 1% of the power is making it to the motor.

Well, duh.

Isn't the O.P. basically trying to connect an ultra-high-impedance voltage source to a very low impedance load?

Can you say "Mismatch!"?

 

[MrAl]

here you can find the "schematic" for the circuit.
**broken link removed**

Uploaded with ImageShack.us




The original one I used was with 1KV 0.22uf capacitor and without the motor.
But you refer to use different resistors in the single-line? or after it where I have 2 wires?



Can you explain me more where is the return path in that schematic because I don't know where it is.
Because I'm very curious about the characteristic properties of that wire. As far I know, the 2-wire configuration is 1 positive and 1 negative. But in only one wire..? The man of the electronic component shop said me that it's impossible to measure the potential difference in just only 1 wire.

So a big question is... in this wire is flowing just static energy or is it electromagnetic energy? Other?
I have also heard that using a similar technique (maybe the same) you can send some KWatt using only a very thin wire without burning it.

Hi,

The resistor for measuring power would go where the motor is now. Remove the motor and use a resistor there instead. You can then calculate power by simply measuring the voltage across the resistor.

 

[ronsimpson]

This project only works because of the capacitance from the motor to the universe. (ground) Remove the motor and the power level does down. Add an antenna to the motor, the power goes up. Add more wire and the power goes up.

 

[J_Nichols]

The amount of power you can send over a wire is simply equal to the voltage times the amps.

Yes, but... where is the potential difference in the one-wire transmission line? In 2-wire configuration you have a positive wire and a negative wire, but here... Can you explain to us?
I know I can measure the wattage in the part that transforms the 1-wire energy to 2-wire energy. But I'm interested in the 1-wire.

I think you motor will run slow if it is suppended in air.
If you hold it in you hand it will run much faster.
You are going to get knocked on your ass.
I bet 1% of the power is making it to the motor.

While experimenting with it I broke the motor, when I get a new one I will reply to your comment.

Hi,

The resistor for measuring power would go where the motor is now. Remove the motor and use a resistor there instead. You can then calculate power by simply measuring the voltage across the resistor.

Thanks, but there is a way to measure the energy in the 1-wire line or not? I asked to the men in the electric components shop and he said me that I need 2 wires to measure voltage because it's impossible to measure using just 1 one wire.
Another question is about the polarity of this energy, positive, negative...?

This project only works because of the capacitance from the motor to the universe. (ground) Remove the motor and the power level does down. Add an antenna to the motor, the power goes up. Add more wire and the power goes up.

interesting ron... Where you suggest to put the antenna? in one wire of the 2 wires that I connect to the motor? And what about to add more wire? you refer to use a longer wire in the single-line transmission?

 

[MrAl]

Hi again,


To measure power you need two wires that's why i suggested using a resistor where the motor is now. That will tell you what is coming over your 'one wire'. You dont have to measure it in that one wire.
The polarity is bipolar, that is, it is AC. The wave probably isnt a sine wave, but the average will be centered at 0v anyway. This means you might have a higher upper part than lower part but then the lower part will last longer than the upper part.

 

[J_Nichols]

Hi again,


To measure power you need two wires that's why i suggested using a resistor where the motor is now. That will tell you what is coming over your 'one wire'. You dont have to measure it in that one wire.
The polarity is bipolar, that is, it is AC. The wave probably isnt a sine wave, but the average will be centered at 0v anyway. This means you might have a higher upper part than lower part but then the lower part will last longer than the upper part.

I have found this in the wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line

Maybe the energy that is flowing in the one-wire is only the Electric Field instead of the electro-magnetic field? There should be a way to measure the one wire electrical energy. Maybe an ion-meter or something like that.

i have found this, it's an electrostatic field meter and it apparently uses one wire to measure it. In the description you can read:
Static meter displays where and how the static current is generated and its polarization and amplitude
https://www.directindustry.com/prod/puls-electronic/hand-held-electrostatic-field-meters-57485-374204.html
Can we think that this electric field can be positive or negative? I mean, if there is some possibility to think that the electric field can be purely positive or negative, just one polarity. Or not?

Update #1
I have found some data that could be useful:
Other electrostatic voltmeter
https://www.trekinc.com/products/821hh.asp

An explanation and article in wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_voltmeter

 

[ronsimpson]

One wire power:
I had a 1000 watt AM radio transmitter. I measured 7 amps going into the 700 foot antenna and out into space. What many people could not see is an equal 7 amps going into the ground wire.
On the receiving end 10uA goes into the radio. (It looks like the energy is going one way but there is a return path) That 10uA exits the radio, through your hand, through the power cord, in the example of a battery powered radio, throught the case of the radio, but it must find a return path.

We all can see the wire from the coil to the motor. You can not see the path through the air back to the coil and power supply. Any extra metal (or wire) you add to the motor will increase the power level. (the motor side of the two diodes)

I have worked on 100,000watt radio stations. Standing near the transmitter I can hold a floursent light bulb and make it glow full bright with no wires attached. I have held two screw drivers, one in each hand. As I bring them together they will spark.

How to measure the output of your coil, put the ground lead of your meter on the ground lead of your power source. You have about 1000 volts AC. I hope you don't kill your meter or your self. Your meter will read very strange because the waveform is not sign wave.