VW e-UP only charging at 3.6 kW with type 2 connector.

[Diver300]

I've got a 2021 e-UP which is supposed to accept charge at 7 kW with a type 2 IEC 62196 connector, but it's only running at around 3.6 kW.

I've got a Rolec WallPod charger, labelled 32 A, which is around 7 KW at 240 V.

The current was measured with a clamp meter, and by timing the flashes of the little light on the supply company meter. 3.6 kW agrees with the estimated time to full charge that the car displays, given the size of the battery and the amount of charge shown on the gauge.

I've checked the 1 kHz PWM signal from the EVSE to the car, and that has a duty cycle of just over 50%, which seems to be about right to tell the car that it can take 7 kW. I've attached a screenshot from the oscilloscope.

The charging cable has 220 Ohm resistors between ground and the PP connection at each end.

Any ideas why I'm only getting 3.6 kW?

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

It's either the car, or the charger - for a start you need to find out which.

Either take your car to another 7KW charger and try it there, or try another car on your charger, to find out which has the problem.

What does the phone app say?, and does the app allow you to select the charging rate?.

 

[Diver300]

It's either the car, or the charger - for a start you need to find out which.

Either take your car to another 7KW charger and try it there, or try another car on your charger, to find out which has the problem.

What does the phone app say?, and does the app allow you to select the charging rate?.

I was thinking that I should try substituting the car or the charger, but I don't have easy access to spare EVs or EVSEs.

The car charges at 2.5 kW on the EVSE that has a 13 A plug on it.

The phone app refuses to connect to the car. There's no app for the charger.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

I would suggest talking to the charger supplier then - it may be something they already know about? - you didn't say which model charger it was, as some (most?) of them have phone apps.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

If I've found the right thing, the data sheet says some have switchable charge current selection - does yours have a switch or option link somewhere that replaces teh switch?

• Amp-Selector key switch (switches between 16A or 32A) • Charge-By-Solar switch (switches between 6A, 13A, 16A or 32A)

 

[Diver300]

Mine isn't switchable, it's labelled 32 A.

Also, as I understand it, the duty cycle of the signal between the EVSE and the car is what tells the car how fast it can charge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

The waveform that I showed has a duty cycle of just over 50%, which should represent 32 A, so it looks like the EVSE is doing the correct thing.

 

[Diver300]

Looking further, and without any useful specification on the VW website, I think that I have found why it's not charging at more than 16 A.

The CCS connector on the car has three power pins, N, L1 and L2. L3 is absent.

I think that the car is set for mainland European mains power, where three phase is far more common, but the current rating is less than the 80 A that is common in the UK. It seems that the car can charge at 3.6 kW (16 A) on each of two phases, giving a total of 7.2 kW. I can only provide one phase so it's limited to 3.6 kW

Cars with single-phase 7 kW chargers will only charge at a lower rate where there's a domestic 3-phase supply limited to 25 A or less. Some cars have changed to 3 phase inputs in later model years so that they can be charged at up to 11 kW on a 3 phase 16 A supplies.

Also, I've heard that new build houses in the UK will be getting 3 phase supplies in future, but I don't know the details. The intention is to make EV charging, heat pumps, microgeneration and domestic energy storage easier.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

Odd..
This page implies the vehicle itself is restricted to 3.7KW charge, even on three phase chargers?

Volkswagen electric car models and charging specifications | EVBox

Find a complete overview of Volkswagen electric vehicles and compare them by range, make, model, and price.

evbox.com

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Looking further, and without any useful specification on the VW website, I think that I have found why it's not charging at more than 16 A.

The CCS connector on the car has three power pins, N, L1 and L2. L3 is absent.

I think that the car is set for mainland European mains power, where three phase is far more common, but the current rating is less than the 80 A that is common in the UK. It seems that the car can charge at 3.6 kW (16 A) on each of two phases, giving a total of 7.2 kW. I can only provide one phase so it's limited to 3.6 kW

Cars with single-phase 7 kW chargers will only charge at a lower rate where there's a domestic 3-phase supply limited to 25 A or less. Some cars have changed to 3 phase inputs in later model years so that they can be charged at up to 11 kW on a 3 phase 16 A supplies.

Also, I've heard that new build houses in the UK will be getting 3 phase supplies in future, but I don't know the details. The intention is to make EV charging, heat pumps, microgeneration and domestic energy storage easier.

As I said above, talk to the people who supplied the charger, or talk to the manufacturer directly - I suspect they would be more than willing to help, and will almost certainly know exactly what your issue is.

 

[Pommie]

Is there a power point in the UK that can supply 7.2kW that isn't three phase? Kinda out of touch with current UK systems!!!

Mike.

 

[rjenkinsgb]

Is there a power point in the UK that can supply 7.2kW

Yes, but they have to be a special type for EV charging and hard wired to the consumer unit (fuse board).

(Though there are other ways around it.. I worked on part of a mobile X-Ray setup some years ago; that had a strange, special plug with UK "13A" style pins and a straight industrial plug style body, rated 30A - it had to be the only significant load on a ring main circuit, using the fact thay ther are generally fused at 30A or on 32A trips).

 

[Pommie]

Yes, but they have to be a special type for EV charging and hard wired to the consumer unit (fuse board).

It's going to be interesting how charging is done. I live in a tower with ~100 apartments. The feed is for 100 apartments, I wonder how that will manage if 100 electric vehicles need charging. It will be mostly at night so the current feed may be insufficient , as I said, interesting. 100 vehicles at 7.2kW is seriously going to overload the supply, even at 2AM.


Mike.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

It's going to be interesting how charging is done. I live in a tower with ~100 apartments. The feed is for 100 apartments, I wonder how that will manage if 100 electric vehicles need charging. It will be mostly at night so the current feed may be insufficient , as I said, interesting. 100 vehicles at 7.2kW is seriously going to overload the supply, even at 2AM.


Mike.

I've said all along there's going to be a requirement for a massive infrastructure upgrade, and massive extra generating capacity - the UK even had to fire up a coal fired station the other day, due to lack of wind.

 

[Diver300]

Odd..
This page implies the vehicle itself is restricted to 3.7KW charge, even on three phase chargers?

Volkswagen electric car models and charging specifications | EVBox

Find a complete overview of Volkswagen electric vehicles and compare them by range, make, model, and price.

evbox.com

I don't think that table is correct. The socket on the car has pins for two phases (plus signals, neutral and earth) but the socket housing has space for three phases, as it has to connect to standard connectors.

I can't see any reason why they would have fitted pins for two phases and only wired to one. If all pins were there, it could have been that they used and off-the-shelf socket, but two of three looks as though it's got two phases connected.

As there are (most likely) two phases, it would seem unlikely that only 3.6 kW could be used, however many phases are present when the car is capable of 3.6 kW from a single phase.

It's understandable that the car will only take 3.6 kW from a single phase, as that is limited by the rating of the wires and the electronics.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

It's like you don't want to know the answer? - you won't ring the charger people, you won't ring the car people (these are the people who can instantly tell you) - apparently you wont even use the 'google people'?.

However, the 'goggle people' happily tell you that the E-Up:

while charging on three-phase AC power can offer 7kW, max single-phase AC is still just 3.7kW.

So do you have three phase feeding your charger?, bearing in mind that it would be EXTREMELY rare to have three phase in a UK domestic property, and if you do it will most likely have been installed specifically for feeding the charger (probably at great expense). Easy to tell - you'll have three large company fuses on the incoming supply.

You've also still never even bothered telling us which model charger you've got?.

 

[Diver300]

Well I did search for what the charging rate is. I would be interested to find where you got the quote from.

The EVSE is a Rolec 32A WallPod. I did mention that earlier. We have, of course, emailed the dealer but not had an answer so far.

VW have this information:-

(You have to go into the VW configurator to get that, and then click on "Performance and dimensions)

Obviously VW aren't very forthcoming with the information. The fact that the table isn't just in the specifications show that.

The table does imply that 3.6 kW charging isn't really available. I guess that in Germany it's not. I suppose I should be grateful that the car has got the steering wheel on the right.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

From pod-point

Volkswagen e-up! (2020) Charging Guide | Pod Point

The complete guide to charging your Volkswagen e-up! (2020), covering electric range, how long it takes to charge, how much it costs, and much more.

pod-point.com

Look under 'Overview'.

Have you got three phase mains?.

The 3.6KW system may not be available in Germany due to their electrical system?, the UK tends to be one of the best - and it's only the use of ring mains that makes 3.6KW possible here (other than direct feeds from the fusebox).

 

[rjenkinsgb]

>ot<

It's going to be interesting how charging is done. I live in a tower with ~100 apartments. The feed is for 100 apartments, I wonder how that will manage if 100 electric vehicles need charging. It will be mostly at night so the current feed may be insufficient , as I said, interesting. 100 vehicles at 7.2kW is seriously going to overload the supply, even at 2AM.

Aaaand - to add to the electrocity system overload, for new buildings (not existing homes), in the next few years fossil fuel heating systems are supposedly going to be banned worldwide; apparently 2023 in the UK.

The UK Gas Boiler Ban: Everything You Need to Know in 2024

The government will be banning gas boilers from new builds from 2025 onwards – but how will this affect you? Read on to get the low-down.

www.theecoexperts.co.uk

A typical gas heating boiler is somewhere around the equivalent of 15 - 20KW, and the only source for that will then presumably be the electricity system?
They are claiming heat pump systems as a replacement, so only about 1/3 the equivalent energy needed - in places where heat pumps are practical..

I think some extremely major upgrades will be needed to the distribution systems; but then anyplace that can run full electric heating should have a decent supply capacity from the start.

>/ot<

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Aaaand - to add to the electrocity system overload, for new buildings (not existing homes), in the next few years fossil fuel heating systems are supposedly going to be banned worldwide; apparently 2023 in the UK.

The Dutch are banning gas before the UK - and not just on new builds - gas is running out, and they aren't going to import it.