Welders

[Resistanceisbutyl]

I'm in the market for a good entry level welder. I mostly just want something to fool around with whenever I feel like it, but I want versatility.

I really don't want to keep gas around, or buy any when I run out. So I guess traditional MIG and oxy-acetylene are out.... someone said gas-less wire can be bought but it is not worth the money.

I want to be able to mess with anything (or almost any) material I run across, including thin-gauge material. So I am guessing stick welding is not what I am looking for.


Anyone have any ideas? I am looking at Multiplaz, but I'm a little skeptical of their swiss army knife sales pitch.

 

[jrz126]

I'd say get a MIG. Having to get the tank refilled every so often isn't that bad. even a small tank lasts awhile. You can get the flux core (gasless) wire for the MIG, but its not worth it, because getting the tank refilled is fairly cheap and easy. The flux core doesn't weld as nice either.

 

[cr0sh]

I'm in the market for a good entry level welder. I mostly just want something to fool around with whenever I feel like it, but I want versatility.

Disclaimer: I am not a professional welder, nor do I play one on TV - I only dabble with welding from time to time...that said:

If you want versatility, you're going to end up with multiple welders; there's no real way around that. But, for just "messing around", if you have a dedicated source of 220 AC available, then a classic Lincoln "tombstone" AC/DC welder will do just about everything you'd want and more.

I really don't want to keep gas around, or buy any when I run out. So I guess traditional MIG and oxy-acetylene are out.... someone said gas-less wire can be bought but it is not worth the money.

I've never used wire-feed welders, so I can't really comment, but from what I have seen of others using them, just like any other tool it depends on the skills of the person. You can think of a flux-core wire welder as a stick welder in which the stick "never" runs out (ok, it does, but you know what I mean). You also don't have to generally worry about feeding the material in like you do with a stick welder (where you have feed, "stir", and move all at the same time; tricky to do, but it is what it is). Whether it is any better or worse than a shield gas welder, I don't know.

I want to be able to mess with anything (or almost any) material I run across, including thin-gauge material. So I am guessing stick welding is not what I am looking for.

Depends on what you mean by "thin gauge" material. A good stick welder (or even a crappy one, like the cheesy old AC buzz-box I own), with the current turned waaaay down, and small 1/16" sticks, you can weld pretty thin stuff; I've done bicycle tubing before. You can do thicker stuff with multiple passes, up to a certain point (I would never attempt to weld 1/2" plate with my cheesy little welder - even though technically it's possible, it just isn't practical).

Now - the thing about an oxy-acet torch is its versatility; I've only ever learned how to cut with one, but it is also possible to braze and weld with it too, among other uses. It just isn't great from a storage standpoint (you don't want to buy the little tanks, either - you'll be refilling those things all the time).

I've honestly found that my cheapo little buzz-box AC stick-welder that I picked up off of Ebay suits me fine for everything I've needed it for (mainly "around the house" jobs and minor project work); in theory, I could even use it as a "cutting torch" and for brazing if I used a carbon rod with it (but I've never tried it). It plugs right into the wall, and I use 1/16" rod with it. Its biggest problem is "sticking" of the rod when starting, but that is pretty common with AC welders. You can't really do heavy-duty work with it, but light repairs and similar kinds of project work have been easily done. If I had the money (to get a dedicated 220 line run), I'd definitely have one of those Lincoln tombstones set up (and probably not a recent model, but something older off of craigslist or such).

 

[strantor]

do not buy this piece of shrap. That was my first welder. Big waste of a little money (relative, to the price of welders). Right now I'm using an older version of **broken link removed**. It's been *good enough* for everything I've needed so far. I use flux core; it's not pretty, but neither am I. I suggest getting a good welder, used, before buying a new pathetically insufficient welder and then buying a good welder. It will save you a couple hundred dollars. Anything you get that runs on 120V is going to be "small" as in, limited in what you can weld with it.

 

[jpanhalt]

I agree with cr0sh about stick welding and the versatility of an AC/DC box. Then, when you decide having a cylinder of argon is not that inconvenient, you can add an HF box and do TIG welding.

To add to the versatility of TIG, remember that the argon can also be used to preserve an opened bottle of wine. The CO2 in MIG mixtures is not good for the wine. That assumes, of course, that you don't finish the entire bottle. If you do, don't try to weld afterward.

John

 

[Rbeckett]

I'm in the market for a good entry level welder. I mostly just want something to fool around with whenever I feel like it, but I want versatility.

I really don't want to keep gas around, or buy any when I run out. So I guess traditional MIG and oxy-acetylene are out.... someone said gas-less wire can be bought but it is not worth the money.

I want to be able to mess with anything (or almost any) material I run across, including thin-gauge material. So I am guessing stick welding is not what I am looking for.


Anyone have any ideas? I am looking at Multiplaz, but I'm a little skeptical of their swiss army knife sales pitch.

Thats a tough set of guidlines. I am a retired welder and I can tell you a few things that will help. First don't waste your money on anything from offshore. They still blow up all the time. Second, decide exactly what you want to do and the max thickness you will work with. )A simple rule of thumb is 1 amp per 1/1000 of metal), then buy 1/2 again larger. Third, Flux core mig is fine, you just need to practice to get the beads smooth and well penetrated. Finally, Pure CO2 is cheaper than 75/25 mig gas and bridges the gap between flux and Mix. If you can sign up for a community college class do it. The gas, materials and consumables will be more than your tuition and you will get hands on help while learning. Dont scrimp on your safety gear, buy the best you can afford, you won't regret it in the long run. Dont give up, it takes a lot of practice to be good, I've been doing it 35 years and I still occcaionally make a chicken poop weld. Stuff happens, so grind it out and do it right when that happens. Have fun and show us some of your projects. Most of my projects were on military vehicles so they are still classified.
Wheelchair Bob

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Dont give up, it takes a lot of practice to be good, I've been doing it 35 years and I still occcaionally make a chicken poop weld.

Yes, it's a very skillful job to be good at - but there are some truely amazing welders around.

There was a demonstration sample in a Sheffield museum of work by welding trainees - I'm trying to remember what exact shape it was?, I can't exactly - but it was wildly different multiple metal segments welded in a circle, and then cut through and polished. It was really a very good example of what can be done.

 

[cr0sh]

dAnything you get that runs on 120V is going to be "small" as in, limited in what you can weld with it.

Just realize that if you do go with a 220V welder (AC or AC/DC, but I advise to go with an AC/DC model), and you don't have a handy source of 220V near where you'll be welding, you'll need to figure in the cost of getting that set up. That will either be a separate circuit that needs to be run, or (if it won't bother your SO) building/having built an "extension cable" (really a short cable connecting a plug and a socket) to plug into where one of your 220V home appliances plugs in (note that you either need to build this cable/box combo or alter the plug on the welder; some 220V welders have a different style plug than what is usually set up in homes - also technically doing this isn't "legal" per-se with building code, IIRC).

 

[gabeNC]

If you can sign up for a community college class do it. The gas, materials and consumables will be more than your tuition and you will get hands on help while learning.
Wheelchair Bob

+1 for this. Take a couple of classes, especially if you do any oxy/acetylene, that stuff can be dangerous. I took fabrication, cutting and TIG classes, what fun! Exposed me to alot of different types of equipment and experience levels. Our semi-retired instructor used to weld submarines during the cold war.

 

[tcmtech]

I worked as a service tech at a major chain company that dealt with welding and plasma cutting equipment on all levels from the small hobby units up into the large industrial application systems.

I would give you my opinion on whats a good reliable welder to buy and why but I have came to find is that the people who actually do know and use welders ever day as profession are the last people the amateur hobbyists want to hear from.

I will say that you get what you pay for and if you go with the dirt cheap basics from off brand companies thats what you get cheap low quality welders that will not ever perform as you had hoped or expected and no a Century welder is not and will never be as good as a Miller, Hobart, Lincoln, or any other big name brand unit regardless of which cheap old farmer/garage tinkerer you talked too.

If you want to do reliable professional looking welds you want a MIG unit with gas not an AC/DC buzz box stick welder.

As far as size goes think about what you really want and plan to use and go one size larger. You will never regret it. I have seen far too many people waist good money by buying a new machine that was too small use it for a month then trade it in a on a larger one because they didn't realize how limited the size they thought would be a good choice would become they once they got good at welding with it.

 

[jrz126]

If you can sign up for a community college class do it. The gas, materials and consumables will be more than your tuition and you will get hands on help while learning.
Wheelchair Bob

Was going to suggest that as well. My dad and I signed up for a night school class when he bought our welder. The class was taught by the Iron workers union. All the other people in the class were in the apprentice program and going for their certification. I was able to get my Ohio Bridgecode welding certification.

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Make sure you know what materials you would like to weld are. If Aluminum is in the cards, it may change things.

I've had a stick, tig and mig in my hand at least once. My first weld in all cases were considered excellent. I just never had time to practice.

A welder can be too big too and without pedal control, you may not be able to weld aluminum.

Probably the reason for my good welds is the ability to silver solder and do glass blowing as well as having good control with both hands and being ambidextrous. I don't know anyone besides myself who can write script left hand, right hand, left mirror image and right mirror image.

 

[bryan1]

G'day Guy's,
In the past when I was living up north thru work I used to hire inverter welders for doing work on remote sites powered by a genset. EVERY time I would ask if the welder was suitable to use on a genset and was told yep. Driving out 400K to do a job, setup and turned the genset and welder on... On striknig the arc the magic smoke came out BIG time of the inverter welder.

Anyway when we bought the farm I had all that in mind and bought a Lincoln V140 inverter DC welder and it one of the best tools I've ever bought. 100% duty cycle @ 100amps and drops to 75% @140 amps. Designed to run off a genset and even tig welding out in the bush runing off a genset is a dream to use.

For anyone wanting to get into welding DC welding is much easier on the strike and do does produce better welds. Inverter welders are very light weight so one can hang one off one's shoulder and weld off a ladder if needed too. For every 100 cheap inverter welders maybe 1 or 2 might be good for long term use but for me that Lincoln inverter welder is the best 140 amp welder I've bought and I swear by it for most welding jobs.

Regards Bryan

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Yep, forgot about that. I had to select a UPS that liked a generator. Boss wasn't happy, because it cost more and it was a critical safety component. It had to run the safety PLC until the generator kicked in.

 

[atferrari]

Few days ago I had to survey cause, nature and extent of damage to the hatch cover of an iron ore carrier.

The cover was damaged when a grab half full of pellets fell down on it.

I was not involved in the repairs but for insurance purposes I had access to the amounts spent.

The certified welder's fees were certainly an interesting amount.(Certified welders are required in whatever repair affecting the Class of the vessel)

 

[atferrari]

Writing no, just reading....

I don't know anyone besides myself who can write script left hand, right hand, left mirror image and right mirror image.

The closest I am is being able to read text upside down. (And to recite the table of 12 with eyes closed )

 

[KeepItSimpleStupid]

Reading text upside down is child's play. Sometimes I print upside down. I forgot I don't have any issues with that either, but I could use more practice. Now, the table of 12 is a problem.