What happened in the other neighborhood

DerStrom8 said:

I think the concern was with the legal implications. If someone illegally modified their car (changed certain signals, or tampered with the computer, etc) and it caused issues with its operation, that's a legal issue and the forum didn't want to support that.

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I guess programing chips for the engine controller could be taboo, there are plenty of other sites for that. But most of the questions I have seen are guys trying to get an engine transplant to work.
When a new member of the pyro forums first question is how to make M80,s he's gone!

DerStrom8 said:

Which personal attacks are you referring to? We were trying to keep this thread clear of that. Factual comments about someone's behavior is one thing, but personal attacks still aren't allowed here.

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Just look at the first page to this thread. I consider those comments personal attacks. Other references to him/her etc. Sorry that is getting personal. Wendy is now Wendy and she is a she. That should be respected regardless if you agree with her choice or not.

spinnaker said:

Just look at the first page to this thread. I consider those comments personal attacks.

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I believe those comments have already been addressed. No more "attacks" have been made, nor will they be allowed if they are made.

The automotive question is moot now.

There still are multiple jurisdictions that have various regulations. So, I guess it is up to the end user to be liable for any and all illegal activity they pursue with respect to their auto.

strantor said:

I didn't read the whole thread, only your post and those after it.
Does that list come from a private discussion among moderators or is it a compilation of the ideas brought up in that thread by members?

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Once the poll ran for a while it became fairly clear that 70 to 90% of the people could be made happier.
JohnInTX picked it up and ran with it. Jrap jumped on it like a kid on a new hobby horse.
I guess the mods have there own little forum where they discuss such things. Kind of interesting.
It will be interesting to see if the members are now like a kid in the candy store.

DerStrom8 said:

I wouldn't recommend testing these. There is actually a discussion going on among the moderating staff about making the rules for these topics more strict, and no longer "open for discussion". There really is no useful purpose for any threads regarding the above topics, and they can only lead to flaming and/or other problems.

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Yea, maybe. I always view debate as a good thing. I'm not sure what flaming is.
Ultimately it comes down to discretion or a really long list. Here are some that have the word oil in them.
Peak oil, tar sands oil, Keystone oil pipeline (wonder what a barrel of that is worth now), Mid-East oil, arctic oil.
I have another list with terrorist - you know ISIS, San Bernardino.
Should I start a poll?

ronv said:

Yea, maybe. I always view debate as a good thing. I'm not sure what flaming is.
Ultimately it comes down to discretion or a really long list. Here are some that have the word oil in them.
Peak oil, tar sands oil, Keystone oil pipeline (wonder what a barrel of that is worth now), Mid-East oil, arctic oil.
I have another list with terrorist - you know ISIS, San Bernardino.
Should I start a poll?

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I understand your point of view. A debate is one thing, but being a public forum there's always that one person that comes in and turns it into an argument, which turns into flaming (verbal insults, personal attacks, etc on other members). Unless a new forum is created where only privileged members can post, it's generally best to avoid these discussions. If such a forum was created, then only trusted members would have access to it and one could start a debate with no fear of it going south.

I'm sure the idea has been mentioned before but I'm not sure if it's actually been considered. Might be a good question for the admins....

DerStrom8 said:

I understand your point of view. A debate is one thing, but being a public forum there's always that one person that comes in and turns it into an argument, which turns into flaming (verbal insults, personal attacks, etc on other members). Unless a new forum is created where only privileged members can post, it's generally best to avoid these discussions. If such a forum was created, then only trusted members would have access to it and one could start a debate with no fear of it going south.

I'm sure the idea has been mentioned before but I'm not sure if it's actually been considered. Might be a good question for the admins....

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Yea, I think your right. They all go south sooner or later, but I've seen some go quite some time and generate a lot of good information.
Anyway. Good luck with the rules.
PS. Now I know what flaming is. Thanks!

Reloadron said:

Hey, I know that avatar. How are you doing? Well I hope. I liked the other site but unfortunately did not see eye to eye with some of the thinking of the site owners and staff. Then too, it is their site to manage and run as they please. When I took the hit for going off on some kid with a mouth much larger than brain I figured it was time for me to depart. I have looked in a few times but really have no desire to hang out there. I was originally here, long before there and have always found this place to be, simply put, more comfortable. All forums need some moderation but when moderation gets carried away and a little heavy handed it is time for me to leave before I do something I'll regret and get tossed out.

Finally, while I have no problem with an individuals sexuality when a thread was started so a moderator could come out of some closet that for me helped push me out. Look at me I feel the entire world should know I am a transsexual. Like I need to know that in an electronics enthusiast forum? It wasn't just the thread it was the comments. Those who embellished the change it seemed were praised but those who felt differently were not quite as well liked by staff. Again, it's their forum to run as they please. Best of luck with the place.

Anyway, I believe at one point you mentioned meeting in Youngstown with another member from here, shortbus that would be you. Should you guys ever put that together please let me know.

Ron

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Hello Ron,
I have just been catching up with this thread and read your post above. I admire your insight and would just like to make it quite clear to everyone that, in spite of my criticism and caustic remarks about certain people and products, I have no prejudice against anyone, no mater if they be white, pink, green, or purple, or if they be male, female, or otherwise. I hope I only judge an individual by their merit. That is certainly my intention anyway.

tvtech said:

Interestingly enough....TCM and I were at loggerheads back then. Lots of stuff.

But you know what? In spite of EVERYTHING that happened....he manned up and dealt with issues. I gave him flack back then. And he handled the stuff.

So, does TCM like me.....probably not. BUT I respect him because he also tells it like it is.

Tough times reveal the very best in good people and the worst in the useless ones....

Regards,
tv

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Well maybe you were but I never had a problem with you.

I don't recall maning up to anything. I'm too lazy to be anything but myself.

Of course I like you. If I didn't I would not read your threads let alone post in them. To be honest there are maybe three people between ETO and AAC that I don't care for and you're not even close to being one of them.

I definitely agree on the hard times thing too. Been there done that got the scars inside and out to prove it and wouldn't hesitate to go back and do it all over again if it meant something to me.

Personal attacks on members is one thing, having a pop at someone who wont let you have a reasonable say is another .

DerStrom8 said:

I wouldn't recommend testing these. There is actually a discussion going on among the moderating staff about making the rules for these topics more strict, and no longer "open for discussion". There really is no useful purpose for any threads regarding the above topics, and they can only lead to flaming and/or other problems.

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Matt,

Of course, you are absolutely right that the so called controversial subjects can lead to problems and I was surprised, but pleased, that they were not already off limits on ETO. To me that made ETO a more interesting site and also one were it seemed that intelligent and open minded members could discuss some very important topics in our society. I always find it sad that these topics often cannot be discussed in terms of facts without people resorting to personal attacks to get the last word in and support an untenable view.

You say these subjects serve no purpose. In terms of ETO's mandate, which is to cover all things electronic, that is true, but then you could postulate the the whole members lounge forum serves no purpose in those terms. In fact though, I think that non electronic subjects, are of interest and add a bit of heart and soul to the technical side of ETO. While I fully understand the current discussion by the ETO administrators, I would be disappointed if there was a clamp down.

Chuck

spinnaker said:

Just look at the first page to this thread. I consider those comments personal attacks. Other references to him/her etc. Sorry that is getting personal. Wendy is now Wendy and she is a she. That should be respected regardless if you agree with her choice or not.

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This post misses the point. There is a vast difference between gratuitous verbal attacks on a person, especially to try to swing the discussion away from the facts, and criticism of a person because of their actions. The situation is that Wendy's actions are being criticized because they are unacceptable, not just by one person but many. Her unacceptable actions have also been supported by factual examples quoted from AAC. After all, to call Hitler a despicable tyrant is not a personal attack per se: by his actions that is what he was. Wendy's personal situation seems to have contributed to a worsening of her attitude; that is why her situation arises.

I am afraid you are trying to stifle comments about a serious and worrying situation by playing the PC card which seems to be the form these days. The end result is that discussions about bad situations are stymied and the problem continues.

spinnaker said:

Just look at the first page to this thread. I consider those comments personal attacks. Other references to him/her etc. Sorry that is getting personal. Wendy is now Wendy and she is a she. That should be respected regardless if you agree with her choice or not.

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Please dont take this the wrong way however. A point of fact many overlook...............

If windy was squished beyond recognition or a situation like happened one September, and all there was to go on was a stain then they would test positive for X Y chromosomes. Ultimately it matters not what you do to yourself or think you are or are not, like physics and conservation of energy you cant bend the rules of biology to what you want.

To be honest the person in question was always decent to me right upto the point this coming out happened, I am glad for anyone that genuinely feels better or happy about themselves, I dont see that in this case. Despite what is being said by them I dont believe it as there actions speak differently, this could be the pills of course. I know I am not very PC but then again like it or not I am in control of my own mind and thoughts, I have every right to view the world as I like, the same way you are free thinking yourself.

Absolutely crazy world this. LG might be 15yrs old....but he has been a member here on an off for almost as long as me. Almost like watching a kid grow into a man. A good straight talking young man who knows how to express himself.

And then of course all the older buggers like me. We have experienced both the best and the worst in people. And companies. And life etc.

So naturally there will be personality clashes and such. How those clashes are handled depends on the character of the people involved....

In my opinion it is fine to give flack to someone who disagrees with you.....but then you must be man enough to stand up and be counted when they fight back. If you loose the battle....accept defeat and learn. Never EVER become a vindictive POS that runs around talking crap behind their backs.

Cowards do that. Been bitten like that many times because bad losers cannot accept defeat. And then they turn nasty.....

Just my 2c. Straight as an arrow.

Regards,
tv

I follow a simple maxim: People would "rather be loved than hated but they would rather be hated than ignored.

I struggle meeting the essence of this concept, i.e., skip the hate and go straight to ignore. The temptation to have the last say is enormous and that inevitably leads to the rancor and flaming one occasionally sees.

I had a recent kerfuffle with someone I considered a troll and my brain exploded. I misidentified a poster as the troll and said things I regretted. I failed to jump to ignore. I also need to be more careful about who is the post's author .

I believe it takes a big man (woman, child, whatever) to know when to shut up. But since we all generally fall short of that ideal, here's where the Mods earn their keep. Of course, they're human as well, so the system can still fail. C'est la vie...

Anyway, I'm a BIG 1st amendment sort. It's my right to discuss, if I so choose, any subject whatsoever. No one is forced to listen. But in the context of this (or any) forum, limits are appropriate, especially given the international makeup of the members. Some topics, even for the "Lounge", are simply too hazardous and we all know, or at least should know, what they are (as listed above).

That said, a ban would only serve to belittle the members as a whole and assume ("make an ass of you and me) a censorship authority. A PC attitude I find offensive. As much as I would like to see ETO as a shining light of forum decorum (nice rhyme, eh?!), it is still populated with everyday people. And **** happens.

I respect the Mods here. They too, of course, screw up from time to time but for the most part they are fair and even handed.

And I know that I often forget the "Report" button. I've never used it. Sort of like ratting out a member. But I'm rethinking my hesitation towards using it (primarily for trolls) as it ought to work as a pressure release mechanism. Hopefully it'll keep me from being very public arsehole. Leaving me to just be a private one... .

^^^ what CBB said. So true.

It's nice to thrash stuff out with people that agree to disagree when all has been said. And no grudges held by the loser...

That being said..........I have had zero fights here. Now and again (rarely) someone will get fed up and challenge me. So be it. Political or Religious discussions are VERY hard to control. Sure, we all have the right to express our feelings,........

So I dropped the Political stuff a while back. I am still the same person and feel the same way about things here in SA....
But my moaning here on OT did nobody any good. Pointless moaning and groaning to an audience that can do nothing to help anyway.

Crazy world. Maybe I have grown up at last. Who knows?

Your friend,
tv

spec said:

This post misses the point. There is a vast difference between gratuitous verbal attacks on a person, especially to try to swing the discussion away from the facts, and criticism of a person because of their actions. The situation is that Wendy's actions are being criticized because they are unacceptable, not just by one person but many. Her unacceptable actions have also been supported by factual examples quoted from AAC. After all, to call Hitler a despicable tyrant is not a personal attack per se: by his actions that is what he was. Wendy's personal situation seems to have contributed to a worsening of her attitude; that is why her situation arises.

I am afraid you are trying to stifle comments about a serious and worrying situation by playing the PC card which seems to be the form these days. The end result is that discussions about bad situations are stymied and the problem continues.

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I am not trying to stifle anything. The way someone chooses to identify themselves has absolutely nothing to do with the subject and should not be a matter of public debate.

Little Ghostman said:

Please dont take this the wrong way however. A point of fact many overlook...............

If windy was squished beyond recognition or a situation like happened one September, and all there was to go on was a stain then they would test positive for X Y chromosomes. Ultimately it matters not what you do to yourself or think you are or are not, like physics and conservation of energy you cant bend the rules of biology to what you want.

To be honest the person in question was always decent to me right upto the point this coming out happened, I am glad for anyone that genuinely feels better or happy about themselves, I dont see that in this case. Despite what is being said by them I dont believe it as there actions speak differently, this could be the pills of course. I know I am not very PC but then again like it or not I am in control of my own mind and thoughts, I have every right to view the world as I like, the same way you are free thinking yourself.

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This is what I mean. Crap like this? How do you know it is the pills Ghostman? Are you a doctor? How would you feel if you read something like this about yourself after dealing with some very emotional and controversial issues you read something like this about yourself in a public forum?

Bill was a fantastic person. Now Wendy is too. Maybe taking her job a little too seriously but still a great person. Your own personal beliefs about her private life are one thing. But they should not be dragged out in public where they might hurt someone. Have a little sensitivity.

spinnaker said:

I am not trying to stifle anything. The way someone chooses to identify themselves has absolutely nothing to do with the subject and should not be a matter of public debate.

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Yes, you are absolutely right, and you make your point well. I misunderstood you- my bad.