What happened in the other neighborhood

Jim,

Between 10/4/2013 and 1/4/2014 the number of posts went from 866946 to 852634, a loss of 14312. That typically happens when an owner deletes older posts. There is no requirement for people to maintain every post written.

I use to look at some forums monthly to do a comparison, like MOM (Month over Month) Growth. I only looked at a year's worth of data to satisfy my curiosity. So, if the owners of any of the forums I mentioned culled their databases, and readjusted their numbers, the data is misleading.

There was a time when we had access to the full database of members. Then we could see their composition. I tried to understand the visitor to member to poster flow as it follows the "internet" 90-9-1 rule. Most forums required membership to cut the rampant spammers. That changed visitors to a what became "registered" lurkers. Hell, we all are lurkers in some sense of the word.

I like John's business analogy.

ericgibbs said:

Its interesting to note that the same small group who caused the unrest at ETO are prominent in the unrest at AAC .

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Perhaps this group came together because they were the only ones that never bought in to the "Moderators are holy and their words are the gospel" attitude.

EDIT: This is not directed at you, Eric. I know you and I had a falling out a while back, but I think we better understand each other now and I hope we're on better terms.

Just my prospective on what happened here and is happening at AAC now. Both of them (IMHO) started with TROLLS. And the support/protection of them by the Mods. It was billymayo here and both billymayo (not a full blown revolt at the time) and most recently RK/koolguy. ETO was wise to nip koolguy in the bud, not letting it get out of hand.

When the rank and file, can see the obvious "trollness" of a member and mods do nothing, the members can only take so much before civil war breaks out. Good members vs mods (perceived to be) protecting trolls.

gophert said:

I asked the question originally

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RonV took over by starting a poll question. But your thread is still alive too.

My only run in with a moderator here, was my perception on how that moderator treated Matt. Depending on my anger level, the remedies run from "remove" to "apologize". Generally, I am solidly in the moderators corner as I have BTDT.

My two run ins with a moderator over AAC, coincidentally the same moderator, was when as a new moderator accidentally banned me (at least that's the story they said when they apologized), and when I read a response differently then the moderator. Again, perception and reading.

In my years of reading forums and other social media, starting with BBS and NNTP, the language seems to get more people in trouble. My reading of their writing might not be the same as the moderator reading of that same writing.

The business model suggests that postings should add value to the forum, not subtract. Other than Off Topic postings, all others should add value to the forum and the moderating team can and should delete those that don't. The owners must provide guidance in that area, or a membership team develop those guidelines. In that vein, the Off Topic areas should be invisible to the visitors, yet open to members. Every business needs high morale and a place to socialize. I'm tempted to say the Off Topic areas require no moderation, if it is restricted to members or a certain class of members.

The members can put on their big boy underroos and big girl panties to handle any situation.

jpanhalt said:

I couldn't agree more. It should be mentioned that several of the high-profile "leavers" (e.g., Mr. RB, Ghostman11) quickly left AAC too. Maybe it was a virus?

One thing that stunned me at AAC recently was the reception given this thread: https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/wife-is-out-the-door.119761/ It now has over 100 posts, mostly supportive, but no one has any inkling of the other side to the story. While there are very few rules about what goes on in the off-topic areas, there are just some tings I can't see bragging about. Seems almost to form a pattern with that individual regardless of the forum.

John

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I am pretty sure everyone here is somewhat familiar with the concept of self choice to either participate or ignore a topic but since you are using me as an example,

Well that's just it. No one knows exactly how a thread will go or who will contribute to it in what way.

My threads about dealing with my now ex wife's issues don't sit well with you. I get that. You have every right and the choice to not read them as well but apparently by the posting numbers and amount of regulars who chose to participate in it obviously it was of some interest to many others even though it didn't sit well with you.

As for my ex wife's side of the story I tried to relate it the best I could but without talking to her in person no you wont know her side exactly as I related it.

I don't hide my mistakes but I also do not dwell on them either which she did.

BTW her and I get along better now being apart then we did together in the last two or more years.

JimB said:

I have no idea why I appear on the staff page.
In fact I did not even know that I appeared on the staff page until you pointed it out.

No negative connotations taken!

JimB

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Maybe you deserve a raise! You should ask them to double your salary.

jpanhalt said:

First off, I don't think volume measures tell anywhere near the whole story. If you want a commodity forum...

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I wasn't asking for more posts (more clients) for the sake of having more posts. I was hoping to have more interesting questions/problems to solve and discuss. Any suggestions how we could become more of a cross-roads of those with problems?

Perhaps this group came together because they were the only ones that never bought in to the "Moderators are holy and their words are the gospel" attitude.

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You should remember that the ETO Rules/Guidelines that existed at that time were being applied by the Moderators in line with the Owners/Adminstrators consent and agreement.

IMHO the changes to the Rules/Guidelines were not needed, all that was required was a simple 'ease off' message from Admin, rather than 'you are doing a great job!'

E

ericgibbs said:

You should remember that the ETO Rules/Guidelines that existed at that time were being applied by the Moderators in line with the Owners/Adminstrators consent and agreement.

IMHO the changes to the Rules/Guidelines were not needed, all that was required was a simple 'ease off' message from Admin, rather than 'you are doing a great job!'

E

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I'll be honest, I don't even remember why the rules were changed. I don't recall any reason for the change except to make them more specific. My main problem was with certain people (which I think has been sorted out--It was simply chalked up to misunderstanding, and cultural differences/slang).

jpanhalt said:

I couldn't agree more. It should be mentioned that several of the high-profile "leavers" (e.g., Mr. RB, Ghostman11) quickly left AAC too. Maybe it was a virus?

One thing that stunned me at AAC recently was the reception given this thread: https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/wife-is-out-the-door.119761/ It now has over 100 posts, mostly supportive, but no one has any inkling of the other side to the story. While there are very few rules about what goes on in the off-topic areas, there are just some tings I can't see bragging about. Seems almost to form a pattern with that individual regardless of the forum.

John

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I just wanted to set the record straight on my dad, he left AAC for reasons totally unconnected with the forum. None of you know just how ill he got and he didnt want anyone knowing.

I had to type some of his pm's for him at the time he left here, and I have to say he was spot on the money at the time. He even predicted the sale of the site in a pm to the mods and admin when the rules were being done.

As for ACC Yes I got in trouble there very quickly recently, but you need to read the thread thats linked here carefully, notice where Wendy says one thing then edits the post? however someone was quick enough to quote the original post.

Its attitude is way out of order, everything they say you cant do, its doing itself. Fairness went out the window here and its gone out the window there, I came back here because its become settled again. It takes a few weeks to kill a forum and a long time to rebuild.

If ETO stays as it is at the moment, then without doubt it will climb back up to the top. People are drifting back slowly and starting to post etc, I am sure as long as it stays fun it will do well, it will just take a little time. As for ACC I am positive the owners will step in soon and someone will be sacked. There business model wont allow for the mod in question to carry on the way they are, of course the owners wont notice until figures drop off.

Not sure to make of the situation with Eric, I think too much went on behind the scenes and in a way he was set up. I liked Eric alot, but at the time he seemed to be running things his way. Now reading what he put it makes me wonder how much of it was his doing and how much of it was him being told the wrong thing by admin.
I honestly dont know and probally never will, Eric always seemed fair until it started to go wrong, I am more inclined to think there was more going on behind the scenes than people realize. And I think considering the amount of work Eric did putting content up, he was badly treated. If he was acting on admin orders the way he describes then it makes me wonder if he was used as a sacrifice. Whatever way you look at it Eric ended up paying a hefty price for thinking he was doing the right thing, I also notice at the time there was alot of good guy/bad guy going on. Funny how its more settled now the good guy isnt around as much (no thats not Eric he was bad guy at the time )

Like I said the funny thing is my dad in the group pm predicted the sale of the site 5 months before it happened, it also turns out that the sale was being discussed at the time. Meah all history and we can sit back and watch it happen over there from afar, the funniest thing of all in the thread over there is the people who you wouldnt want here, are all saying they wouldnt jump ship! LMAO I was so pleased to read that!!

Those that have jumped seem like a good bunch, so I think it wont be long before we are busy again. The current problem is there is more people with answers than there are people with questions, so as more noobs like me come along it will get busy answering noob questions . I still cant believe I asked I asked the scope grounding thing today!! was so obvious when I thought about it. But lucky enough Jim etal speak LG fluently.

ericgibbs said:

You should remember that the ETO Rules/Guidelines that existed at that time were being applied by the Moderators in line with the Owners/Adminstrators consent and agreement.

IMHO the changes to the Rules/Guidelines were not needed, all that was required was a simple 'ease off' message from Admin, rather than 'you are doing a great job!'

E

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posted as I was posting, and is the point I was trying to make. Hearing Erics side makes you wonder why he was set up like that, I have other reasons to think that but a public thread isnt the place. Anyway glad he is still around and apparently still wielding a soldering iron (bet its a weller)!

posted as I was posting, and is the point I was trying to make. Hearing Erics side makes you wonder why he was set up like that, I have other reasons to think that but a public thread isnt the place.

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My understanding of the time was there was a lot of behind the scenes actions being done that were raising the suspicions of a number of people like myself who don't take 'because I said so and I have the power to do so' as valid reasons and justifications for certain actions at one time against a certain person or persons but then nothing against all others the rest of the time.

That process and actions are something I believe you are now well versed in.

That was where a number of us more opinionated and less concerned about what we voice in public members started having issues and started making damn sure everyone who would look and listen would be able to see what we were seeing despite certain others efforts to keep things covered up.

If I or you or anyone else posts a comment that is reasonably questionable and it gets pulled along with an explanation give as to why it was pulled very few here will question it.
I rarely do if that protocol is followed.
However if all of a sudden every post you make starts attracting extreme scrutiny and little to no explanations for what was wrong with it other than you wrote it becomes obvious that's where people start taking offence.

To me it's like having a highway patrol officer pull you over for failure to use your blinker at a turn. Sure enough you got caught and deserve a ticket and a reminder.
Now when that same patrol officer starts pulling you over for every little infraction or near infraction he can find like say ticketing you for turning your blinker on at where he says was 290 feet away from the turn and not 300 feet as the law is written yet ignores 10 other people who made the same turn without using any blinkers at all while he stands there and reads you your rights then as you point out what just happened in front of him tells you that maybe you should be reporting the offenders rather than taking issue with why he just pulled over again for what most would see as a very loose and questionable rule infraction?

That was what a number of us took issue with. Some of us started getting handled way too harshly for no good reason too many times to just be coincidence.
Some of us took offence and deliberately set up traps to catch who was doing it and how they were trying to hide it then took that public so everyone could see what was going on. Interestingly enough that's the point where certain people lost their positions and the rules of the forum got an overhaul.

As for myself this time around here and over at AAC I have no real reason to join the fight. No one's hassling me about petty things and the few things I have had my hands slapped for in the last few years was reasonably justified.

I'm just a spectator and off hand commentator on this one. (So far.)

Well you seen me stand my corner on unfairness over there, I hate rules being applied differently to different people. I guess that is why me and windy fell out (no not a typo ).

I dont need or want all the drama, thats why I came back now all thats over with. ETO will grow but electronics sites are not doing so well these days. Actually Forums in general dont seem as active.

It will be busy here soon , I hope to start part gathering tomorrow for a psu lol, watch how many suddenly go on holiday . Me and a toroid transformer! what could possibly go wrong?

gophert said:

Some people occasionally ask about certain policies of the site (there are many compared to here). The straw that broke the camel's back was this thread (at least for me).

https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/what-is-the-point-of-the-warning-if-this-happens.120023/

A policy has existed for some time that old threads are not locked but, if a new member posts to the thread, the thread is instantly locked and the new member is chastised for posting to an old thread. Then his question/comment is rolled into a new thread (whether or not appropriate context is in his question/comment).

The question was asked, what type of comment/question not result in a locked thread. Instead of an answer, there was plenty of chest poundign and insulting people as "just members" rather than "moderators" and chastize those discussing the situation for trying to rock the boat. Various theories were proposed as to why the bazar policy of the site and, yet again, more chest pounding. So, rather than support AAC as "just members", I left (and so did some others). Some are likely hovering between the two sites but, I think there will be some more traffic around here for a while.

I was pleasantly surprised how many people from AAC were already here. I would list them but I would be afraid to leave someone off.

Other's are welcome to tell their own stories.

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Gophert,
Would you mind going over to the other site and voting in the poll?
I would hate to think that they might change something and still not make you happy.
It wasn't clear to me if the Fuji elevator man was hijacking or posting so I'm not entirely sure about your suggestion as to a fix.
Thanks.

ronv said:

Gophert,
Would you mind going over to the other site and voting in the poll?
I would hate to think that they might change something and still not make you happy.
It wasn't clear to me if the Fuji elevator man was hijacking or posting so I'm not entirely sure about your suggestion as to a fix.
Thanks.

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I cannot suggest a real fix until I understand the policy for the current system. I would appreciate if you could prompt an answer from one or more mods from the clearly marked question in my first post on the thread I started.

My suggestion, also clearly identified in my first post is for them to simply make a decision to either
A) automatically lock old threads, or
B) leave them open - even if they are high jacked, the evolved topic must be interesting if people reply

Right now they are doing A And B - it doesn't make sense to me. It creates work, causes confusion and likely 95% of what the new poster is asking is in the existing thread (so why the H€LL do we start over with a new thread).

Since the question was never answered and my suggestions were never addressed, and the current system is completely illogical, I can only assume people over there have ulterior motives and I don't understand the problem (or I am assuming a problem exists when they simply have a different goal than I do).

ronv
Thanks for checking in but, there is no need for any decisions made there to address my concerns. Do what makes the current team happy, or leave it the way it is.

You may have had some influence. As of yesterday there were very few locked threads since January 15th.

Right now, logic and reason seem to have left the other site. There is little consistency in thread management. Which is a good thing because if the actions were consistent. IMHO there would be more locked threads and deleted postings than new content. The site would implode.

I don't consider myself a controversial person, but I heard I was about to be banned. I don't know if this was true because it never happened. I suspect it was because of my opinion on Team Orage content.

djsfantasi said:

Right now, logic and reason seem to have left the other site. There is little consistency in thread management. Which is a good thing because if the actions were consistent. IMHO there would be more locked threads and deleted postings than new content. The site would implode.

I don't consider myself a controversial person, but I heard I was about to be banned. I don't know if this was true because it never happened. I suspect it was because of my opinion on Team Orage content.

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It is hard to know where the undefined boundary is unless you push the envelop off the edge.
Just like it is hard to understand what an acceptable response to an old post might be unless the mods tell us.

I was looking but couldn't find the revived post to an OP asking something like, "did you ever figure this out?" And it was spun off into its own thread. When I criticized, a mod or the poster added a link to the original thread but still, what is the point and how is the poster supposed to get an answer if the original OP if the link is broken?

What a nonsensical site.