Which Ratings Should We Remove (if any)?

DerStrom8 said:

I prefer to only keep the "neutral" ratings, personally. I don't think we should only get rid of the negative ones.

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Lets paint it grey approach?

So are mods for moderating or just deleting spam? if your here to moderate and keep order then surely you should be upto handling trouble with a dislike button! Go read everything you put about the other place (sounds like the commons) then see how similar its starting to sound here.

How about getting rid the troll smiley as well then? or this one can be used to offend if your that way inclined.

Just seems odd coming after a mod poll asking what mods are seen to be about, Ian leaves for a bit, then record time comes back as admin. From where i stand seems more like unrest and discontent behind the screen than in front

large_ghostman said:

So are mods for moderating or just deleting spam? if your here to moderate and keep order then surely you should be upto handling trouble with a dislike button! Go read everything you put about the other place (sounds like the commons) then see how similar its starting to sound here.

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My problems with the "other place" were made very clear on numerous occasions, and have absolutely nothing to do with the rating systems.... Sounds to me like you're just being a

JimB said:

I personally use the Informative, Funny, Like and Agree mostly.
I cannot remember using Dislike or Disagree, but the system says that I have used them both two or three times, where I do not know.

If I find something which is wrong I prefer to say so in words.
If the person whom I believe to be wrong does not want to listen to me, no problem, I just walk away and let him stew in his own juice.

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And that was me until just recently. By getting "thread banned" for pointing out bald faced lies, by getting post deletes for responding after the first member started name calling for disagreeing with His Rights of His Views not being the end all, be all.

Then it goes into PM, where you get told the old platitudes that apply to Him. "be the bigger man and walk away" "your pushing it now" "you are hurting his feelings(by giving dislike disagrees)" And who is leading all of this, behind the scenes? No one else but the one licking his feelings.

It still goes back to what was told to me in PM, "we know the way he is, but you don't need to sink to his level".

Mickster put it very much in perspective. Not all of us come here looking for a fight, most don't want to have a fight, or even watch one happen. Only one that I know of. There are others that won't back down from that fight, a few more like that here.

There once was a thread started here, not to long ago, talking about how bad another forum was, for not putting up with all of the fighting between members. That forum now that ONE member is gone is back to having NO controversy, no long term fighting between members.

It's funny that the same member seems to have changed his avatar to another person that like to keep things stirred up, and people fighting among them selves. But for what good? For the good of the forum? To lift the dialog of learning? Or could it be he just like a fight?

shortbus= said:

And that was me until just recently. By getting "thread banned" for pointing out bald faced lies, by getting post deletes for responding after the first member started name calling for disagreeing with His Rights of His Views not being the end all, be all.

Then it goes into PM, where you get told the old platitudes that apply to Him. "be the bigger man and walk away" "your pushing it now" "you are hurting his feelings(by giving dislike disagrees)" And who is leading all of this, behind the scenes? No one else but the one licking his feelings.

It still goes back to what was told to me in PM, "we know the way he is, but you don't need to sink to his level".

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We have been over this before too. You were not threadbanned for disagreeing with said user, pointing out inaccuracies, etc. You were threadbanned because of how you were doing so. And you were not singled out - similar posts by other members (including said member) were also moderated due to the rudeness behind the posting. This is universal, and applies to all members who behave that way.

But this is not the place to discuss this. That is not what this thread is about.

Regarding your "dislike" to my previous post, while you are welcome to express yourself in that manner I am curious about your reasoning? My comment about AAC was genuine, and my comment to LG was tongue-in-cheek (notice I used the two smilies he facetiously suggested removing). Was there anything you disliked specifically?

This is one of the downfalls of such ratings as "like" and "dislike", and that is that without explanation, they are not remotely helpful, to the poster or to the rest of the community. "Dislike" suffers from this more than "Like" does, though I honestly couldn't tell you why.

DerStrom8 said:

Regarding your "dislike" to my previous post, while you are welcome to express yourself in that manner I am curious about your reasoning? My comment about AAC was genuine, and my comment to LG was tongue-in-cheek (notice I used the two smilies he facetiously suggested removing). Was there anything you disliked specifically?

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I'll tell you what it was. It was the calling of LG a troll. No matter how many "smiles" of what ever type you put there doesn't take any of that back. Said user seems to like the 'smiles' too. to get his point across when mere words can't won't do it. If any thing should be removed it should be the smiles, smiles that to many have no alternative meaning, but to those that over use them do.

shortbus= said:

I'll tell you what it was. It was the calling of LG a troll. No matter how many "smiles" of what ever type you put there doesn't take any of that back. Said user seems to like the 'smiles' too. to get his point across when mere words can't won't do it. If any thing should be removed it should be the smiles, smiles that to many have no alternative meaning, but to those that over use them do.

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Ok, but once again it was very clearly "tongue-in-cheek". I was not actually calling LG a troll, and I'm sure he understood my intent. But to each their own....

I must admit Matt, I did think that you were having a bit of a surreptitious dig at LG there, but decided not to rate your post because I wasn't 100% sure it wasn't banter.
The grin at the end created a small amount of ambiguity and that is where the difference lies between you and certain others.

As SB says, nobody wants to come here and see loads of in-fighting, that's what led up to the last meltdown we had and ETO has still not fully recovered from that thus far - compared to what it once was, this place is now practically a ghost town. You used to have a hard time getting through all of the new content in an evening, but we're now down to reading all the new posts in an hour or so. Less sometimes.

As previously mentioned, members make a choice to post, or not. If that post is confrontational, or considered 'crayoning' all over another members thread, it is a reasonable expectation to assume that others will step up and show their displeasure, because at the end of the day, members want education not drama. A conciliatory tone, when debating a point, earns you much more respect than shouting someone else down, or trying to insult their intelligence and inflating your own sense of importance. If you want drama, go and watch Lizard Lick Towing, or something similar - but please leave it behind when you log in and don't bring that kind of garbage here.

Maybe it's time for a bit of reflection for some of us because, as I indicated before, we don't actually know each other, we only form an opinion of others based upon what they write here.

I'm willing to wipe the slate clean and set off on a fresh footing, provided others on ETO are willing to do the same. Be assured though, just the same as when walking down the street and seeing someone abusing their partner or child, or any other human being or animal, if any kind of abusive behavior is displayed here, I will have something to say.

And with that said, removing the ratings which indicate that a certain member's input is socially unacceptable provides no alternative to flag up anti-social behavior, other than composing a scathing reply.

My 0.02 (again)

Mickster said:

I must admit Matt, I did think that you were having a bit of a surreptitious dig at LG there, but decided not to rate your post because I wasn't 100% sure it wasn't banter.
The grin at the end created a small amount of ambiguity and that is where the difference lies between you and certain others.

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With that in mind I extend my apologies to anyone who misunderstood my post, including LG (to whom I have already sent a PM doing the same). I should have been clearer that I was making a joke, and certainly did not intend to stir the pot, so to speak.

And with that said, removing the ratings which indicate that a certain member's input is socially unacceptable provides no alternative to flag up anti-social behavior, other than composing a scathing reply.

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Understood and duly noted. I appreciate the input.

I expect once the week is up we will have an open discussion (an extension of this one, I suppose) to take a look at the results and make a decision as a community. Sound fair?

Cheers,
Matt

It wasn't initially stated that this would be a binding poll with a small +/- margin either side considered as a stalemate, so if the votes are still close, there should be some further discussion, as you rightly suggest. Obviously, if there were a landslide result in either direction, the community would have to be seen to have spoken unequivocally. As it stands, there are 11 votes for the removal of 'dislike' and 10 for the keeping status quo...

Personally, I would have liked for there to have been more input on this, perhaps from the poll to have been displayed in a more prominent position and be visible to a wider audience, but it is what it is.

The ultimate goal however, is to calm the fighting.

Mickster said:

It wasn't initially stated that this would be a binding poll with a small +/- margin either side considered as a stalemate, so if the votes are still close, there should be some further discussion, as you rightly suggest. Obviously, if there were a landslide result in either direction, the community would have to be seen to have spoken unequivocally. As it stands, there are 11 votes for the removal of 'dislike' and 10 for the keeping status quo...

Personally, I would have liked for there to have been more input on this, perhaps from the poll to have been displayed in a more prominent position and be visible to a wider audience, but it is what it is.

The ultimate goal however, is to calm the fighting.

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I too wish this could be put in a more prominent spot. The number of responses has been a but underwhelming.

dmiyares Aimee Kalnoskas Is there anything you can do?

Personally, I dont mind the way it is.

To me, 'likes' are the ultimate form of post appreciation. A 'dislike' is always harsh, and should be used sparingly.

I like agree/thanks/disagree and consider them to be a quick and easy method of post interaction, not to be taken too seriously.

Cicero said:

Personally, I dont mind the way it is.

To me, 'likes' are the ultimate form of post appreciation. A 'dislike' is always harsh, and should be used sparingly.

I like agree/thanks/disagree and consider them to be a quick and easy method of post interaction, not to be taken too seriously.

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Don't forget to cast your vote

DerStrom8 said:

Don't forget to cast your vote

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Already done so

OO
I had a show weekend, Sunday was busy and i havnt actually read the forum since very early Sunday morning, any logins are auto ones when i bring back tabs.

Matt sent me a pm about the smillie thing and i answered it (there was digs from Matt or myself), i will read this thread properly in a day or so, as some are aware some things came up and for work reasons i am in London Thursday. If i get a chance i will take the laptop and take a look.

Without reading the context yet i can say this, Matt and myself have no issue talking frankly in pm, i find it most unlikely he would take a subtle dig with a smilly at me. I wont share pm's but trust me if Matt has a problem with me he dosnt do subtle in a post he contacts me and we sort it in pm. So i think its likely (99.9999%) that whatever he has said was the reason for the smilly is correct.

Hope to be back in the forum soon, but not turning down a pleasant work trip for a forum .

Thanks for reinforcing what Matt stated above.

Regards.

Mickster said:

Thanks for reinforcing what Matt stated above.

Regards.

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Yes sorry, i managed to get everything ready for tomorrow/today finished quicker than anticipated , so i read this thread, my keyboard is wireless and i dont watch the screen!! I missed some words out .

The bit about pm's came out wrong!! I was saying that Matt had contacted me and it was all polite, i can see why some may have taken certain impressions at what was written. But Matt is one of the few who wouldnt feel the need to be subtle to me to get a point across. I am pretty sure Matt would not hesitate to call me a troll in pm, i am also certain he wouldnt hint it in a post. We dont always agree, but we dont play games either, sorry for any confusion and i am really sorry i didnt respond until now! It turned out to be a really busy couple of days, one of the downsides to studying and running a business at the same time.

Anyway having read the thread i think its got to be a all or nothing type of thing. It speaks volumes about people who complain about neg ratings, but all the points raised about them being quick etc i think are really valid.

In some ways i think ETO has lost its way a bit, i also think some dont like change despite the fact change always comes.

The reason I dislike dislike is if someone doesn't like something, then they should post the reason why they dont like it, or why they disagree..., which requires them posting something, not just a drive-by hit.

MikeMl said:

The reason I dislike dislike is if someone doesn't like something, then they should post the reason why they dont like it, or why they disagree..., which requires them posting something, not just a drive-by hit.

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Valid point, but again it depends on context. If used correctly then disagree shouldnt cause a problem, i think the symbols of disagree and the other one should be changed or swapped. In some ways its the symbols themselves that are more a problem IM.

Thanks for your take on this Mike, your opinion is valued greatly.
IMHO, dislikes are generally applied to a specific, seemingly-apparent inflammatory post, usually when the other avenues have already been exhausted and a particular member persists in stirring the pot, so to speak. (This is not always the case and sometimes there may be a misinterpretation, but most-often there will be some extenuating circumstances. Members can always undo their rating upon realizing a mistake.)
If you look around you will rarely actually spot very many of them within an average time-frame, but when a member gives a strong appearance of repeated troll-ish behavior, rather than have the thread descend into a cess-pool of bickering back and forth, leaving a heap of messages for the Mods and Admin to clean up, a simple 'dislike' can perhaps convey the message that what was posted is overstepping a line.
Disagree is different, again IMHO.
Anyone can disagree with something that is posted, but it should be customary to state the reason why in a follow-up post.
I don't think that 'disagree' should have the same negative-weighting that 'dislike' does towards a member's reputation.

My 0.02.